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I picked these this week and they are getting a lot of attention. I’m hoping a major wants them but you know cloisonné is a strange bird. What do you think a hit or miss.
They're impressive regardless. But to me they have a good shot at being late Qing.
Impressive pair of vases for sure, but my guess is mid-19th century or later, because the number of colors over all, seems like a lot, and the foot rim is thin for the earlier ones. But look very high quality, and the wirework was gilded, also I can't quite tell but the joints look soldered.
I hope a major takes them, but even on ebay or a local auction they should do really well.
Cheers,
Jeremy
@jbeer2121 Jeremy I’m really frustrated with the so called experts they want to call everything 20th century it’s the safe go to. I was told today they are 21st century I ask why the response they are to art deco. Not the enamels or the wiring craftsmanship nothing. So I said well if they are modern do you have an example the response was these were made a lot in the 1980’s I told him I have several of those and these are not. These vases are as John stated Late Qing export and most likely for the European or French market during this art nouveau period that explains the blend. They are not soldered I’m going to post some pictures of the construction it’s very interesting. But here is a closeup of the wire gilded.
Brian, these are beautiful vases, as Jeremy says, they will sell well.
I can see why people have said 20th c, there is metal band which I have seen on 17th c pieces, but it appears very frequently in the 20th c. Also the colours and the unusual finials. I have a similar end on a 1930s/40s hand mirror.
My first feeling was 1920s and after looking at loads of things, I haven't really changed my mind, but that is give or take a few years or so. Basically I would think very late Qing/early Republic.
The thing is they are very nice, disputes over age can't take that a way. Are the stands made for them? Are there any clues there?
@julia somewhere people that call themselves experienced collectors or knowledgeable came to some conclusion that during the 1980’s to present some cloisonné artist produced all Ming style pieces with a art deco inspiration. I have seen many good pieces fall through the cracks due to this. I could guarantee a Qianlong vase could show up and it would be said it’s 20th century to art deco or perfect. It’s the get out of jail card. I know these are not 1980 or later due to the construction and I have seen many of the 1980 pieces they are simple Ming style attributes with a metal copper alloy that is dull in comparison to the older pieces. The new pieces are actually mechanical in nature the vases are tack welded the old pieces are seam locked never welded or soldered in the joints all you have to do is look and examine. A few experts I know have been burned and so they get tunnel vision and don’t want to move past it. The bases are not original but they did have some I say this due to the foot. As for age I had another piece a few years ago and it was 1900 my dating on these personally is around 1900 give or take. And you are right it really doesn’t make much of a difference they are exceptional pieces undamaged except for value. A late Qing value over a 1980 is 5 figures I have seen this style sell at Christie’s late Qing for $50000 so I just want a designated experts to put a little explanation into there reasoning not just simply say they look to art deco sorry to blab I have had several pieces turned down this year that came back good. I really no longer listen to experts I only listen to opinions and go from there.
Hello Brian:)
for me, they are a later piece of the 20th century, 1940+, This pattern in the red circle is okay for 1920-40
But I think the metal pieces are later especially at the top and the handle, the blue colour in the metal is also a bit strange to me:
BUT... there is a main motif that reminds me of the later pieces, the flowers at the top they are in 2 pieces:
Sotherbys listed Late Qing.
Here is the construction of the joints.
@88teo88 I am not following your flowers in two pieces could you elaborate. Thanks.
I'm persuadable about blue paint and metals that they are late qing, but the flowers in 2 pieces, I have never seen flowers this way in old pieces, so one piece of the flower is on 1 metal piece, and the other one is on the other metal, so the flower should be only on 1 metal, but of course, I'm also persuadable if you can find a piece
@88teo88 I think it’s the joint band that might be throwing you off. As for the handle I took a closeup you can clearly see the gold alchemy its natural patina in the layers also the molds are definitely carved not press like modern pieces.
I have come to the opinion the reason this is throwing people off with the unusual embellishments is it might have been a private order. This looks to be a symbol or crest I have not found this anywhere.
This is starting to be a good study piece there are clues everywhere you just have to look. The bronze rings are have forged there is no joint or soldering they must have been casted then hand finished I’m still trying to figure out how they got them in.
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