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My excitement when I found this Tang bust of buddha

 
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4246
Topic starter 27/11/2022 9:02 pm  

I have been refining my treasure hunting these last few months I popped into a mall that I only go to check one vendor she is a world traveler and very eclectic. I saw the Buddha on a table but it had no price so I got in touch with her to get a price. She had no information but I have been researching Buddha’s and instantly recognized it as Tang Dynasty. My question is what drove the decapitation of these Buddha’s from their stone bodies. I did reach out to a contact and confirmed the dating but I have decided for now not to auction it since I collect buddhas and would unlikely not find another. These are mass produced today in the boat loads.

8BC02C62 1BDB 429D A4FD ABFD932D3A45
647BB324 7A6E 42A7 967D 44CECA360526
17D15A9B 8F8B 43D7 A07B 3DBA9A8CFDF2
1A5FDEF0 DD9F 418A ADA6 47A38C4A2E8D

 


   
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 Charles Bryan
(@kirby13)
Noble Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 704
27/11/2022 11:40 pm  

Hi Brian,

I like the facial features, and I hate to say it, but I think that one is modern.  I have frequently found ones with that hair pattern.  I think it is done with a diamond coring bit--hence the little circles.  I could be wrong--maybe they used bamboo, with grit.  But in the real ones, the little hair tufts seem to be little coiled cones.  

Charles

 


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2875
28/11/2022 7:27 am  

@lotusblack I agree with Charles.  The quality of the carving falls short of genuine Tang work.  As for your question, Tang and other stone statues were subject to damage from weather and warfare.  So, preserving the head of a statue was not uncommon, nor is it unique to Asian culture.


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4246
Topic starter 28/11/2022 10:54 am  

Maybe this will help convince you that this is No modern head

C737CD46 622C 473A 8F2A 7ECDD03D758F

 


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2875
28/11/2022 12:32 pm  

@lotusblack Nope...not convinced.

The head of Buddha is of high importance, and such, the attention given to details such as hair style and facial features should exemplify the very highest of carving quality.  Any absence of quality should be suspect.

The hair on your Buddha head was clearly carved with a power tool making equally circular cuts for the hair - that's not how genuine pieces were carved.

I believe I have a near identical head rolling around at my building.


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4246
Topic starter 28/11/2022 1:09 pm  
39437D71 0E0E 4965 BDBA D68526BD0324

   
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4454
28/11/2022 4:33 pm  

@lotusblack I don't know how old your Buddha head is, but I recently obtained one myself I thought could be very old so I sent it to Peter for assessment. He dated it to most likely the 19th C and told me that a large number were created at that time. Like yours, mine looks like it was hacked off of a statue and seems quite old in appearance. He also said that years ago he was told by one of the world's foremost experts in these stone Buddha statues that even a decent portion of the heads that have made it into museums and that have come up for auction at the major houses were actually made in the 19th C in a very convincing way to emulate the older ones, and not many people can tell the difference, so it is a very tricky area to get involved with and he mostly avoids it himself. With that said, I personally find it hard to resist buying one that has some age when I come across them. Let's face it, they're just cool things. Plus, it's the Buddha's head, so what's not to like? Every home should have one! Buddha heads for all I say!


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4246
Topic starter 28/11/2022 4:42 pm  

@johnshoe it’s also nice when it cost less then a decor piece by like a $1000 I paid a small amount for this piece.


   
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4454
28/11/2022 5:30 pm  

@lotusblack The nice ones are undervalued like the wood carvings imo.


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4246
Topic starter 28/11/2022 5:49 pm  

@johnshoe I have a strong background in geology since I own a gold mine with a operational plan. I understand stone and rocks I also know stone to create fossilized patina takes a very long time. No faker can create fossilized patina if the outside of the stone has fossilized patina it is in no way modern. The Buddha I have was attached to a body and was outside for a very long period long enough to create fossilized patina and stone erosion every copy of similar pieces none show fossilized patina or natural erosion.


   
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4454
28/11/2022 10:57 pm  

@lotusblack here's one I have. What do you think of it in terms of age, etc?

20220915 180750 (1)
20220915 180829
20220915 180530
20220915 180619
20220915 180737
20220915 180917
20220915 180909 (1)
20220915 180533
20220915 180645
20220915 180725 (1)

   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4246
Topic starter 29/11/2022 3:58 am  

not sure the style I don’t recognize might be south East Asian.


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2875
29/11/2022 7:54 am  

@johnshoe John, your Buddhist head, if genuine (and I think it is) is a Gandaharan piece - 3/4 th c., so about 1900-2000 years old.

I've had several figures, busts, and heads over the years... they can bring good money when the surface carving is intact.

https://www.christies.com/lot/a-group-of-nine-schist-and-stucco-5293851/?intObjectID=5293851&lid=1


   
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4454
29/11/2022 12:24 pm  

@greeno107 That is what I would hope it is, but I'm still not sure about it. After I got it I looked at as many Gandharan examples as I could find and it certainly seemed to have potential to be a real one, but I think I would have to have someone in the know handle it in person. And there seems to be a lot of differing opinions about the authenticity of these. By the way, the whole history of Gandhara was something I learned more about as well while I was researching the head. It was quite a place and time in world history - an amazing combination of cultures came together there. I watched a little documentary about it - maybe I can find it again and if so I will post a link. John


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2875
29/11/2022 4:36 pm  

@johnshoe Certainly, anything can be faked.  However, the carving is exceptionally good, the stucco (or stone...hard to say for certain with the photo) is worn in a natural way, and the chisel marks seem genuine.  I dissolved a fairly extensive archeological collection that had hundreds of schist, stucco, and sandstone Buddhist pieces, including some from Gandahara - your head is spot on, but not the kind of value when one sells a bust or entire figure.


   
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