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Jade disc are one of the most prolifically copied and often very difficult to distinguish. Often they would need to be handled.
In my opinion this one is a modern copy.
I believe this for a few reasons. Firstly it looks treated. It does, not look natural. Secondly the perfect circles along with curves indicates a modern drill.
As you know provenance is very important with jades like these. Without said they are substantially cheaper. As it is often very difficult to determine age etc etc.
Regards,
Mark
I should perhaps have mentioned that I'm not certain about the authenticity of these. But their small size suggest they are authentic in my opinion. Only 11cm across.
I'm also not sure if they are treated or not. The whitish residue in the russet areas is also seen in natural coloured jade. And artificial staining of jade was used extensively in the Ming dynasty. I'm not sure what you mean with "the perfect circles along with the curves". What part of the discs are you talking about?
Here is a close-up where you can better see the detailing of the carving. A little on the crude side but still fairly finely worked.
I love the intricate carving, but two things give me pause. First, the areas between the carving seem to very flat and planar across the whole disc. This could be achieved using machinery--imagine the equivalent of a router, grinding out the outlines of the carving, which are then carved by hand to achieve the 3-dimensional look. It might be achievable by hand, but it would be difficult. Of course, it is hard to tell, looking head-on, just how flat and even the areas between the carvings are, so maybe I am wrong?
The second thing is that within the central hole, the bottom side of the decoration crossing the hole is not carved 3-dimensionally. Given the care used to carve the top features and the other decoration on the bottom, why wasn't the bottom of the creatures carved?
I have never seen any bi-discs in real life, and these are just my opinions. Despite my reservations, they are very attractive, and I would still be proud to own them! The variation in color is striking.
Charles
I am referring to the back with the curves and circles. They appear to be too perfect.
The colour maybe from either treatment or over exposure on the camera.
Mark
I don't think the comma scrolls, etc. appear to be too perfect. They can be much finer than this. In general Han dynasty jade can be extremely finely carved. I don't think that the jade material look artificial stained either. It might be however.
The two jade discs were available in an online listing but no one bid the dollar 1500 opening bid. I just took the time to go through the sellers other listings appear to be either fakes or doubtful. But some of the jades look very convincing.
This jade Ming/Qing buffalo for example seems to be very high quality. Only 8cm across.
These reverse circular curved symbols appear to be at least in my eyes to be too perfectly carved.
To carve said using the traditional tooling would be extremely difficult. Especially with multiples. Whereas using a modern drill very easy.
As you already know archaic carving are being produced today in astonishing high quality. So without provenance buyers are reluctant to buy.
I was taught to to be very careful with too perfectly carved circles and curves.
Is the buffalo also from the same seller?
Mark
Yes, the jade buffalo is available from the same seller. At this Han jade bi the scrolls are even more perfect. And they can be finer than that.
The jade bi disc available from Sam Bernstein does not have a provenance.
@avatar I might be wrong but Sam is the providence.
The one from Sam Bernstein you will see the circles and curves are not perfect. At least not in my eyes.
As noted by Brian this particular disc has no provenance or has not been published/listed. However he is in my opinion one of the top dealers in jades. Anything coming from his gallery is on itself substantial provenance.
Later I shall look into the reference material quoted by Sam Bernstein and if appropriate shall post here if anyone is interested.
Mark
I am interested. I found the Bernstein piece very helpful as a comparison. This may sound fanciful but it has a warmth and softness to the work whereas the others seem cold, as though the manufacture involved no emotion. Rather like the way the decoration on a copy of an old porcelain piece appears stiff.
@lotusblack Sam Bernstein is a reputable dealer. Not a provenance or a providence. If you bought the jade bi and wanted to re-sell it you could note it as a provenance as where first you purchased it. Prior to that it doesn't have a provenance.
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