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This is some kind of hard stone. To me it kind of looks like a mottled celadon with some russet and brown tones. Can anyone tell if it is jade or something else and clarify if it is hand carved, how old it might be, etc? Thanks! John
Hi John,
A most interesting carving. It could be nephrite jade or agate. You would need to perform a specific gravity test.
This one is difficult to date by way of the pictures....... But I am inclined to think late 19th century to early 20th century.
Mark
The brown/black mottled colors , to me, may be formed by artificially dyeing process instead of natural process. So, the item may be recent.
Interesting comments by Zen.
Personally I don't think it's dyed or treated. If you use a UV it should pick it up etc. But I would definitely still perform a SG test.
It's very unusual carving. So dating it is problematic.
It could be early 20th century judging by the tooling etc.
Jade dealers/collectors rarely agree. 😁
Mark
@imperialfinegems Here's the lid and the whole package together. Interesting how the top is a different vein of stone. Not sure if it is a replacement or if they did that on purpose originally and it has some kind of symbolism, etc?
Hi John,
Thank you for your additional information and images.
I suspect it is a more modern piece. But I am not ruling out a early 20th century. I have never seen one like this.
Please perform a SG test and UV light.
Mark
@imperialfinegems I don't think it is dyed either nor do I think it would be any newer than early 20th. I was looking up how to do a specific gravity test but I'm curious if you have any recommendations for the best way to do that?
Google gravity test for nephrite jade.... There are plenty. Its very simple my friend.
I have seen similar a long time ago. Sold as early 20th century. The tooling confirms this from what I can see. Very typical.
Mark
@imperialfinegems The dealer friend I got them from bought them on a house call. He didn't pay a lot for them so it wasn't some kind of modern Chinese scam business. Apparently the person had inherited them from their grandmother, didn't know anything about them, etc. They didn't have other Asian things to speak of so I think it is highly doubtful they would be modern based on that information, unless they were making things like this in the 50's - 70's, etc. then I suppose they could be vintage mid-20th. But it seems reasonable to me that late 19 early 20th could be possible.
Dyeing Jade is nothing now. It can trace back to as early as Song Dynasty. In Qing, Emperor Qianlong asked his imperial shop to make dyed jade for him to intimate archaistic jade such as jade items from Han.
That being said, recently, there are so many recently dyed/faked jade items on the Chinese market, as there is a high demand inside China for archaistic jade. My first instinct when I saw such a brown/black mottled jade item is not nature and not old. Usually such dyed item also is made of poor quality of jade ( jade sources other than Hetian, or jade with lots of flaw such as lots of fissures, inclusions). Personally, I would try to stay away from such items, unless there are solid provenances. However, archaistic looking may be appealing to many people, they can be great decorative items.
@imperialfinegems I did the test on a lid and a base separately, and while I don't entirely trust my accuracy, I came up with about 3.1 for the lid and 2.4 for the base. But I could be off on both. I tried using the volume of water displaced divided into the weight, but it just didn't feel vey exact the way I was doing it, eyeballing things, water spilling, etc....
@zjadey I have previously heard of dying stone but I know little about what is possible, so I wanted to include a few more pictures for you to comment about in hopes I can learn a little bit. In these pictures you can see the different color of the veins wrapping around and going through the stone. I am curious if dying is able to produce these types of effects or is this something only found in natural stone? John
The dyeing process is about weakening the integrity of stone, make it more porous, so, dye can easily penetrate into the stone. How to weakening the sone? Boil it, fry it oil, or bake it on fire, no kidding! The process sounds like cocking. In the case of frying the stone, dye may add to the frying oil. So, for any dyed item, the color only on the surface or anywhere there are cracks/fissures.
Also when baking stone at high temperature , color change may happens due to oxidation of certain elements (e.g. iron) inside stone. Examples includes Jadeite and agate can be baked into dark red (very rare color in nature and so very sought after).
In the case of yours, the brown color does show up where crack is. The black color is nature color of stone inclusion. If your SG test is not far off, the bottom is like serpentine or soap stone, which is easier to dye.
The lid of your case, may have been baked into dark brown due to iron oxidation from Iron (II) to Iron (III). If jade containing iron, the specific gravity may be on the higher end of the range 2.9-3.1.
Anyhow, my first impression is the lid and the bottom are not a matching pair originally.
After giving it some time I've decided to ask Peter to have a look at these so I'll let you all know what he has to say about them once I hear back. John
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