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I'm pretty certain I've got a very nice 18th C plate here, but which reign I'm not sure. It seems all three emperors had a connection to Buddhism so the sacred objects around the border probably could have been for any of the three but maybe someone knows if one of them favored that as a decoration more than the others. The foot rim is snow white, which makes me lean towards Kangxi, but I'm not sure if that is correct thinking in regards to this type of plate. The significant presence of kiln grit might also be a clue for one over the other. I'm not clear on the differences between faces so maybe Birgit or others can point to some of the telltale signs to distinguish between these reigns, although obviously the transition between Yongzheng and Qianlong can be interchangeable because of the artistic crossover. One of the most amazing things is that in the border design between the ribbons with all the sacred objects and symbols, the entire area is covered in tiny dots - so small that at first glance I just thought maybe the plate was a bit dusty and needed to be washed, until I looked more closely. I'd estimate there's around 10,000 of them. This is just incredibly detailed work and I'm a bit blown away by it. The plate has a couple chips around the rim, but it's so pretty I almost don't care. Another question I have is would you refer to this as famille verte or famille rose? I am thinking famille verte but maybe it's both? It's 9.75 inches. At any rate, I look forward to hearing your thoughts. Cheers! John
I can’t recall the name but it is a balance of Green and Mauve/Purple rather than the usual pink.
Originally from later Qianlong into and more predominantly in the 19th c.
Im pretty sure Cohen & Cohen wrote upon the subject and produced a book or catalogue on the theme.
Vic
I can’t recall the name but it is a balance of Green and Mauve/Purple rather than the usual pink.
Originally from later Qianlong into and more predominantly in the 19th c.
Im pretty sure Cohen & Cohen wrote upon the subject and produced a book or catalogue on the theme.
Vic
I think there is a thread on this on the Gotheborg forum. I always forget the name, too. Something about violet or lavender always comes to mind but I don't think it is that.
Thanks, everyone! Found this one which seems like a good comp, has the dot work, etc. https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/asian-art-furniture/ceramics/antique-chinese-export-porcelain-famille-verte-bowl/id-f_12193143/?gclid=CjwKCAiAhbeCBhBcEiwAkv2cY-16G1xUWr4ZAzjY7s6WRJMFuTw_2HOPVCef0cLbeBCvprIgHAbhhxoC46EQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Although the foot is different but that could be due to the difference in shape. At any rate, I thought that flat edged style of foot (I think people might refer to it as V shaped?) on my plate was more an 18th C thing, but I guess not necessarily? Also, mine has a nicely delicate feel, which again reminds me of 18th C plates I've held more so than the 19th ones I've had, which seem thicker. But perhaps this is just a quality difference that could have occurred at different times? I'd welcome any more knowledge on that if anyone wants to help educate me more on the subject. Thanks!
I think the next time I post a blue and white piece, regardless of what it is, I'm going to title the post "Is this Chenghua or Xuande?" 🤣
John,
I think the flat shaped "v" foot rim carried on from the 18th to the 19th century. My 19th century plates have the same shape as my Kangxi and Qianlong plates but my earlier 18th century ones are much cleaner and smoother.
The first three are 19th century with kiln grit/enamel spots/rough feel, and the latter two are Kangxi and Qianlong, respectively. Apologies for the photos being out of order, on my phone.
John
@bartholin So then I wonder if the presence of kiln grit is the main tell that it is a 19th C example?
Or, I guess the question I'm hoping someone will answer is do 18th C examples ever have kiln grit?
Kiln grit or foot roughness is associated with porcelain from the mid 19th century. Due in part to the economy att as in opium wars etc.
Towards the end of the 19th century this problem was overcome.
Mark
John,
I think it's just one of many tells. With my plates, you can just tell looking at the front that they're 19th c. They're rose medallion/canton plates.
I think another user previously posted about the history/timeline of kiln grit, but I can't remember off the top of my head. Hopefully someone else can chime in more on that.
John
@bartholin If someone would have told me even just a few years ago that I would be interested in reading about the history of kiln grit, I would have laughed in their face and asked them what drugs they were on and what planet they were from. But now, here I sit, very much hoping that whoever posted that kiln grit info you alluded to will do so again. My god, what has become of me?
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