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Hello All,
Is the above Chinese Reign Mark correct?
If so, for which period was it used? And even if it is not 'genuine'... Which period was it used anyway. I have never seen this mark before and do not have a good reference book to look it up. The actual mark is blue cobalt on white porcelain. I changed the photo colours to black and white as there was a strange colour cast from my camera.
Many thanks!
[Note to self: Treat yourself to a good reign mark reference book ?]
Hi Lewis,
That's the reign mark for Yongzheng, Qing Dynasty emperor 1723-1735. It's written in the seal script.
As to whether or not it's genuine, only pictures of the object itself could begin to answer that.
Craig
You don't need a reign mark reference book because there are enough examples online , and there are few actual reigns, and any variation in the way the mark is written can easily be copied on modern pieces, so as Craig says , seeing the piece is essential.
It's true that some ways of writing the first two characters 'da qing' were only found in certain times , and you can maybe use it as a way to rule out a mark as being 'not of period' , but you can't use them to confirm much at all.
tam
Also, since you mentioned wanting "a good reign mark reference book", I'm curious: Can any members recommend one?
I think this one by Gerald Davison is the most comprehensive, but it always has a price that would make Kangxi himself weep. That said, Tam makes a good point.
By the way Lewis, you can see a few Yongzheng marks on this page from the above book.
Many thanks Craig & Tam for your feedback.
I initially thought this mark was a 6 character Yongzheng mark as well, however on closer inspection I realised elements of some of the characters are different from the examples I found on the Web.
Is this because this mark is simply a bad copy of a genuine Yongzheng reign mark or does it say something else... Any Mandarin readers out there? - I would love to know what this mark says or is trying to say.
To my eyes this mark looks very well drawn / written, so my thinking was why change the Yongzheng reign mark if you can copy it exactly. So, I thought maybe it is not the Yongzheng reign mark, but a different reign mark or maker's mark I dont know of.
- Please let me know your thoughts. - Many thanks!
If you look at the character 'zheng' in the yongzheng marks from Davidson's book you will see variation even in such a simple character in different but genuine seal marks , so there was no 'one way ' to write the characters , and style changed depending on (possibly) fashion, the emperor's choice, or the artist's choice who wrote the mark etc.
It was someone's job just to write the reign marks on porcelain, and experts in China claim to be able to detect the individual 'hand' of different people in the genuine marks, but this is very esoteric and doesn't affect the ordinary collector/dealer because now you can be sure copiers are also copying the style of particular marks and ways of writing. In my view the study of marks, beyond basic recognition , is not essential.
tam
I totally agree with you Tam, but if you look at say the top middle character of the mark on my piece, it is a completely different pattern / shape of character. It is not even close to the regular Yongzheng reign mark examples. Do you see what I mean?
If you look at say the top middle character of the mark on my piece, it is a completely different pattern / shape of character. It is not even close to the regular Yongzheng reign mark examples.
It's the same character. With the seal script in particular, a character's individual components (radicals) are often stretched and shrunk to give the overall character the desired boxy shape. A certain amount of artistic license is allowed for this; that's understandable when you consider that seals (aka 'chops') themselves are often odd shapes, like ovals and rectangles.
So back to the 雍 character in your example. See this 亠 part at the top of this 雍 version? It covers the whole character's width from left to right. The examples I showed from the book above have this same component, but it's shrunk down to only the top left quadrant of the character, and then the part remaining (on the right) is stretched upwards to fill the blank. This amount/degree of variation is perfectly normal in seal script characters.
Here's your version readjusted to look a little more like the book versions:
Your larger question seems to be whether or not this particular way of writing this particular seal means your piece is or isn't genuine. I can't imagine anyone making that determination.
Oh one last thing. I noticed this variation on your final character, circled below. See that extra little stroke there? As far as I know, that particular variation is only present on Yongzheng reign marks.
The mark, from what I can see in this photo, exhibits some characteristics of hollow line? The strokes seem to be split, caused by the coarsely refined cobalt being pushed to the outside edge of each stroke with heavier deposit on the ends of strokes.
Calvin Chou in his book ‘The Hollow Line in dating Chinese Ceramics’ cites that this is a feature of the period 1850 to 1920. His opinion was that pieces with this feature bearing reign marks of either Kangxi, Yongzheng or Qianlong must be later reproductions.
Anthony Allen discusses this feature in “Allen’s Introduction to Later Chinese Porcelain”. He states that at the time of writing the book, he had never seen a genuine Kangxi, Yongzheng or Qianlong piece with this feature.
It may well be possible that this theory has since been discredited? But I thought I’d chip in with it because it was the first thing that struck me about the mark.
Nic
First off.
The New and Revised Handbook of Marks on Chinese Ceramics Hardcover – 2013
I have also read about it. I seem to remember that there has been discussion on the Gotheborg forum about the validity of using this as a means of dating objects. I can't remember what the outcome was! I will see if I can find it later - unless someone else can fill us in?
The theory is that when they started using a poorer quality cobalt, or if they didn’t grind it finely enough, the hollow line was the result.
Sorry if this is obvious, but where in the above mark is the hollow lines?
Are we talking about the middle of a line width being hollow or just the entire length of each line stroke?
Many thanks for your assistance!
Hi Lewis,
as I understand it, it differs in how obvious it is from piece to piece. But, generally, the whole line is blue but that the edges of each line have more colour than the centre.
Here’s the example from Allen’s
sonmetimes, there will be bubbles where the stroke ends.
here it may s more obvious in the image on the right.
Nic
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