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Watership
 Watership
(@watership)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 2637
Watership - Skype
Topic starter 30/05/2022 7:52 am  

I purchased this and haven't received it yet.

FA15BCA8 C9B5 41C2 8CC6 E8487436A274
A0238AEF 3C79 43A3 9C4D 85134CFAB8B1
491FA3A6 6782 4954 8045 9978846AEB4E
F4A05405 E530 4A0E B1A5 C478BEDD2A84
B54FC1C3 D8CB 4D4F A0DA 1D5F51A66228

 

It was described as Japanese. I wasn't able to find anything remotely similar, but bought it anyway. Today I saw this Kangxi bow in one of Peter's videos. It is actually the thumbnail to the video.

E5FCF1EF 793C 4971 977F E0086412CB4B

 I am not saying it is the same thing, but it is closer than anything I found. I therefore looked through Kangxi immortals bowls, and think that this is the type, after which, it is modeled. 
https://shangrila-antique.com/zh/product/18c-kangxi-chinese-porcelain-bowl-eight-immortals-attributes-shou-lou-antique/

But, for me, the quality of the painting is not a match for this or other Kangxi immortals bowls that I looked at. I actually prefer the one I purchased, artistically.  

The mark is a mystery and I don't have a full view of the foot yet. 

Any thoughts? 

Thanks, Todd

 

 

 

This topic was modified 3 years ago by Watership

take it with a grain of salt


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
(@greeno107)
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Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 2875
30/05/2022 8:02 am  

Just some observations...

The crazing suggests it's soft paste which I think is unusual.  The foot is unglazed on the exterior and interior, while Peter's example is finished  entirely on the exterior.  And, the rendering is more detailed/more line work in the clothing.

For me, it does have a Japanese feel to it.

The Shangrila example looks watered down in color, rather overly shiney slip, so I suspect a modern piece.

 


   
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Shinigami
 Shinigami
(@shinigami)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 4870
30/05/2022 9:35 am  

The Shangrila piece has the typical Kangxi bottom and rim fritting. It looks shiny because the pictures are very bright. 
Todd‘s bowl looks clearly Japanese to me. Look at the lady.

 

Birgit


   
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Watership
 Watership
(@watership)
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Topic starter 30/05/2022 9:57 am  

Thanks Tim and Birgit,

I thought it was more likely still Japanese, also. But I wanted to get some more opinions from knowledgable members such as yourselves 🙂 . 

The lady does look Japanese. A Japanese version of a Chinese immortals bowl it seems. I'm looking forward to getting a better look at it, I really like the artwork. 

take it with a grain of salt


   
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4458
30/05/2022 12:01 pm  

@watership It is interesting how yours has shaded or reddened highlighted areas. That could be a good sign. I look forward to seeing better pictures once you get it.  


   
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Watership
 Watership
(@watership)
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Topic starter 30/05/2022 7:02 pm  

Thanks John,

I'll post more pics when it arrives...

take it with a grain of salt


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4251
30/05/2022 10:54 pm  

This bowl could be Chinese blue de hue for Vietnamese market I’ve seen similar marks like this.


   
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Watership
 Watership
(@watership)
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Topic starter 31/05/2022 3:46 am  

Thanks Brian,

That had not occurred to me. I wonder if that was also John's thought....

take it with a grain of salt


   
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7080
31/05/2022 4:18 am  

Hi Todd, 

Its s very nice immortals bowl. 

Its Japanese. Not Chinese imo. 

Note the blue circle at the outer edge. The figures are very much Japanese. 

Nice example. 

Mark 


   
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 johnshoe
(@johnshoe)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 4458
31/05/2022 7:54 am  

@watership I was just thinking it might have some good age and be nice quality. I think like others that Japanese is more likely. 


   
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 Julia
(@julia)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7258
31/05/2022 1:49 pm  

Sorry for the late reply but I have spent hours being fascinated by the contradictions of this lovely bowl and trying (failing) to resolve them in my head. 

The things that I was trying to put together in are the lovely neat/tight foot rim,the brown upper rim, the crackle (and discolouration) and the red.  
 
I came up with all kinds of combinations but nothing that explained all of it. Notably, I have found no sign of any underglaze red on old Japanese pieces and early overglaze was quite orange.
 
I agree it looks Japanese for reasons already mentioned, but on the other hand, the dragon is very Chinese-looking (so are a few immortals). If it is Japanese, could it be 20th c, sometime late Meiji onwards, maybe Kutani (that mark is familiar).  The brown rims were used again in the 20th c, Kutani pieces can have crackle glaze and it would explain the dragon having 5 claws.
 
Obviously, not being an expert I can't say for sure it isn't Chinese, or an older piece, but I think if you can id that foot rim, the rest may fall into place one way or another.  Looking forward to the photos!
 
 
 
 

   
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Watership
 Watership
(@watership)
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Posts: 2637
Watership - Skype
Topic starter 31/05/2022 8:06 pm  

Hi Julia,

Ohh, hours? I hope it was a labor of love 🙂 .  Thanks for taking the time.

It hadn't even occurred to me that the patches of red are underglaze. Things just escape me sometimes.  That is an interesting aspect.

When I started looking at this piece, I did arrive at Kutani...although far from certain. I don't think my efforts at research are as sophisticated as your's. It was just a feeling. Kutani is famous for the predominant red patterns, of course. But domestically they did produce blue and whites, and the quality could be high. But you know that already.  

I expect to have it in about a week. This seller sometimes makes glaring omissions, such as the foot, but they do provide extra pictures if asked. In fact, they did just that for me, just a few days ago, regarding another item. I could have done that with this bowl, I suppose. But I was going to buy it anyway.  Will post more pics soon!

 

take it with a grain of salt


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
(@lotusblack)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 4251
31/05/2022 8:18 pm  

@watership I looked in my Japanese porcelain book one trait that was evident was the Kutani bowls all seem to have the soft glaze crackle. I did also find a Japanese lady that was strikingly close to yours.


   
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 Julia
(@julia)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7258
01/06/2022 1:54 am  

If everyone else is seeing tiny text, I apologise. I hit something when typing and the text went very strange after posting. I deleted it three times trying to make it look normal and in the end altered it off site. It looked OK last night, this morning, I can hardly read it! 🤣 Hope this one works.

Todd, I really enjoyed myself. I even dreamt about it last night. 😊 

 


   
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Watership
 Watership
(@watership)
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 2637
Watership - Skype
Topic starter 01/06/2022 3:31 am  

Julia, I just zoomed in without thinking about it. But yes, your text was rather small, wasn't it? 😋 

I do the same thing on occasion...bold, bullet points, etc.. none of it intentional. Wow, even a dream! 

take it with a grain of salt


   
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