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Hi all,
I got into a large lot this morning, and I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed with the pieces in it. I was hoping y'all could help me figure out whether these four pieces have age to them.
This one is a small bowl with what looks to me to be a minogame, and varying panels on the inside and outside. It is a deep cobalt blue color and appears hand-painted when viewed under a loupe. It's my favorite from the lot. Here are some photos:
This one is a small pot, and I'm unsure of whether it's Chinese or Japanese... I know there was conversation about the "bullseye" footrim at length in a previous thread being a characteristic of both. Here are some photos:
This one is Chinese I think with a cafe-au-lait or gilt border. I had some trouble because it is hand painted, but the footrim looks too white and new to me. Here are the photos:
Last one is a small Japanese Imari sake/tea cup. I've seen the good luck symbol in red and gilt, but never the symbol on this one. Here's the photos:
I apologize for the onslaught of photos and requests in this thread.
Kindly,
John
Thank you as usual, Mark. Although, I was hoping the Minogame bowl was older than that. Looks like I have to train my eye more!
John
Hi John,
It's difficult for me to accurately date Japanese tea cups. You maybe correct but I always side on caution when I am unsure. It's far easier with plates and chargers etc.
Hope you can snag them for a decent price. They appear to be in great condition and nicely decorated.
Mark
@bartholin I love them and one has the bullseye base, it might be older, but I do like all of them and the eight pointed star bowl (Minogame) is lovely, has a Seto looking base. Sharon
Hi John,
The 2nd item with the bullseye looks to be a soba choko. I do think that one is mid 19th.
Not sure the creature on that 1st item is a Minogame. Maybe a dragon or Kirin?
Todd
take it with a grain of salt
Hi John,
It's difficult for me to accurately date Japanese tea cups. You maybe correct but I always side on caution when I am unsure. It's far easier with plates and chargers etc.
Hope you can snag them for a decent price. They appear to be in great condition and nicely decorated.
Mark
No worries! I always appreciate your input. I actually did get them for a great price! With the number of pieces in the lot, it worked out to about $1 per piece!
John
I looked at that creature again, and now I see the Minogame. Pretty sure you are right 😋
take it with a grain of salt
@bartholin I love them and one has the bullseye base, it might be older, but I do like all of them and the eight pointed star bowl (Minogame) is lovely, has a Seto looking base. Sharon
Hi Sharon!
Thank you for looking! I really do love how these are decorated. Still relatively new to Japanese porcelain, but I have a few books coming in on the subject. I haven't handled any Seto ceramics yet 😪
John
Hi Todd,
Thank you for clarifying the shape! I've never heard of a soba choko before, and assumed it was a mini planting pot. Glad to know it's a minogame! Still hoping to get someone to look closer at it. Do you think Peter would be able to look at it, or does he mainly focus on Chinese works of art?
John
Hey John,
Never apologize for posting lots of photos..
Not only because they help, but also because we love seeing them 😊
Todd has a great knowledge of these wares like Mark said, as he acquires/handles a good amount of them (making us Japanese collectors quite jealous in the process!)
I believe he is spot on with the age/attribution of your Soba Choko cup.. early-mid 19th century (Late Edo) classic Koki period style with the janome-kodai (“eyeball/bullseye”) bottom..
Let me see if I can add on to the other items..
The Chinese blue & white export cup w/ foliate rim I believe is 18th century (Qianlong) and very nicely rendered!
However, I could be a bit off and perhaps the resident Chinese export collectors here would confirm/clarify.
Regardless, it’s a slightly nicer than usual quality from what I tend to see.
The bottom Imari style gilt w/polychrome & underglaze sake/teacup could possibly be 19th or later into 20th century..
(As Mark said, these can be difficult)
It is quite decorative & features some less common elements for this style of cup; but the wider foot and distinct beveling prevents me from being confident on the age as anything far older..
Bottom symbol in gilt looks to be a variant of the Ōtomo clan’s mon (roots in Kyūshū), yet also could be an attempt at the very similar mon of Nabeshima clan in Saga domain..
The later wasn’t known to make wares like these despite being famous for their wares, nor was the former recorded to produce such (from what I know) which has me think this is more of a tribute/commemorative piece from a set of 5.
For $1 a piece; ya did excellent!
Enjoy the spoils, and hope this helped.
-JRN
Thank you Mark and JRN for the kind words 😊
I too often have to go on a feeling rather than specific knowledge. JRN has the ability to confidently date Japanese items in particular. I always defer to JRN and Mark. (As well as others).
The Minogame bowl I am guessing is about 5 inches across? The details seem to be drawn well, whereas the filled in areas are a bit messier. If I had to guess, I would say late Meiji. I think JRN may have overlooked that item? He probably can give a more accurate assessment. Although occasionally pieces are just enigmas when it comes to determining an accurate date.
Peter is equally knowledgable in Japanese as well as Chinese wares, and am sure would be helpful.
Best, Todd
take it with a grain of salt
Hi @jrn,
Thank you for your kind words and guidance. I also appreciate your detailed comments! 😀 It looks like the Soba Choko cup is my first Edo period piece! I'm very excited about that!
I also appreciate you looking at the underglaze blue export cup and the imari style cup. At this stage in my collecting career, I haven't had much confidence in dating what I have, so I'm grateful for any information. I think it's incredibly interesting that the symbol at the bottom for the sake/teacup is probably derived from a famous mon. I hadn't thought of that possibility. I wish the lot came with the full set!
Do you have an opinion as to the minogame bowl? It's 4.5" wide in diameter, so I don't think it's for sake or tea.
All in all, very happy with what came out of that lot!
Kindly,
John
Thank you Mark and JRN for the kind words 😊
I too often have to go on a feeling rather than specific knowledge. JRN has the ability to confidently date Japanese items in particular. I always defer to JRN and Mark. (As well as others).
The Minogame bowl I am guessing is about 5 inches across? The details seem to be drawn well, whereas the filled in areas are a bit messier. If I had to guess, I would say late Meiji. I think JRN may have overlooked that item? He probably can give a more accurate assessment. Although occasionally pieces are just enigmas when it comes to determining an accurate date.
Peter is equally knowledgable in Japanese as well as Chinese wares, and am sure would be helpful.
Best, Todd
Whoops! I hadn't refreshed when I sent that other response. I'm always keen to learn from you all. And yes, you are correct, it's about 4.5" wide! I don't know if this is correct, but I ruled out it being edo period because of the hodgepodge of design elements from a symbol, fishermen, the minogame, mountains, and plants, which was characteristic of the Meiji period onwards. Could this have been a possible clue as to Meiji?
Kindly,
John
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