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The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
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I remember a bit back I had posted a plate that we determined was likely Yongzheng because of the back decorations witht he bamboo sprays, and I just got two more Plates, rather large at 11 1/4", and they have some stylized floral sprays on the reverse... I am wondering what you all think. There are decorative similarities to Kangxi, the way the the trees are painted for instance, but I think the plates are later.
Also got with them an extra that had some restorations which were horribly done, and having removed them, I have a cracked but lovely large dish for my collection.
That is a fine collection of antique chinese plates.
I have circled one on green, as I read in a Antique book which i will find and take a picture of, that these plates were once called 'London Delft' and made in england 18th century.
I am 95% sure that the antique book is wrong, as I have seen many of these and i also have one of these in my possession and I am quite sure the antique book is mistaken.
The Circled plate in green, is the one i refer too.
However i wonder what people think, and have they heard of a chines eplate being called english.
I didn’t know plates were hand painted in England, wouldn’t it have been cheaper to import them from China? The plates have a Qianlong look to me but the flower on the back of the rim and the depiction of the bird are probably a bit unusual.
Do you mean it is actually English delft or the pattern is?
I can't really see it well, but it doesn't look like delft to me. I have a couple of plates and they are tin-glazed and fritted. This one doesn't appear to be earthenware but I suppose the pattern may be copied from English pieces although given they are copying Chinese it seems a bit odd. As you say that must be a mistake or they look similar.
I have had a few Bristol/Liverpool Delft plates and bowls over the years, and though I do not have my original pictures here is a link to a good example of Chinese style delft. As Julia says the rims tend to show fritting, significantly more so than the Chinese ones. Also in those chips the paste is seen to be of a yellower, or browner color depending on regional manufacture, where as the Chinese paste is bright white.
The English were at the time trying to produce true porcelain (think 3rd quarter or the 18th century, Worcester and Derby as well as many others) and in the process were playing with earthenware and semi-porcelains, Also this was far more affordable at the time to produce in England. They certainly were creating wonderful hand painted pieces, though I have always found that they lack the sophistication and quality of their Chinese counter-parts.
Here are a few more pictures of the circled bowl, you can see the paste, and the careful foot, almost certainly Chinese.
I have had a few Bristol/Liverpool Delft plates and bowls over the years, and though I do not have my original pictures here is a link to a good example of Chinese style delft. As Julia says the rims tend to show fritting, significantly more so than the Chinese ones. Also in those chips the paste is seen to be of a yellower, or browner color depending on regional manufacture, where as the Chinese paste is bright white.
The English were at the time trying to produce true porcelain (think 3rd quarter or the 18th century, Worcester and Derby as well as many others) and in the process were playing with earthenware and semi-porcelains, Also this was far more affordable at the time to produce in England. They certainly were creating wonderful hand painted pieces, though I have always found that they lack the sophistication and quality of their Chinese counter-parts.
Here are a few more pictures of the circled bowl, you can see the paste, and the careful foot, almost certainly Chinese.
Jeremy
Thank you so much io was so curious about that, the english replicas from the 18th century really are quite good in my opinion, i was surprised they good actually compete with the chinese cobalt style.
So the auction house in the book was right. I wonder which are more valuable, i think i owuld prefer a chinese plate but interesting that the english on is also of value and quite an antique being early 18th century.
It is only this picture that i can instantly see this might not be Chinese or a very poor one.
Otherwise i really would struggle to tell the difference, I know Greeno has a real eye for the artistry but for me, I just wish to confirm it is antique and handpainted and of chinese deisgn as that gets it right 8 /10. I do like good art but i am not sure i am really that could at the art sid eof things, so the fact that Liverpool delft look so like a real chinese plate amazed me.
I didn’t know plates were hand painted in England, wouldn’t it have been cheaper to import them from China? The plates have a Qianlong look to me but the flower on the back of the rim and the depiction of the bird are probably a bit unusual.
Do you mean it is actually English delft or the pattern is?
I can't really see it well, but it doesn't look like delft to me. I have a couple of plates and they are tin-glazed and fritted. This one doesn't appear to be earthenware but I suppose the pattern may be copied from English pieces although given they are copying Chinese it seems a bit odd. As you say that must be a mistake or they look similar.
I agree the new ones look Qianlong.
I guess i had meant english delft, not London Delft at least you know of this, and for me i never knew about english delft. I am now curious if i have collected some english delft and not know it, but maybe in real life it is more apparent than a picture.
English delft is quite different from Chinese pieces, it is very provincial. Creamware and pearlware are more refined in potting and decoration. Some late 18th c English ceramics, notably floral patterns, I find hard to easily distinguish from Chinese.
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Topics and categories on The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
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A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
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Basic Rules For the BidAmount Asian Art Forum: Talk about whatever you want. You can even discuss and offer things that are for sale if they are authentic. Maximum image file size per post is 2 MB. Images of 700pxl x 700pxl are optimal if saved at a medium resolution. Be respectful of others and enjoy yourself. Click the YouTube link for a brief tutorial on using the forum. You can also EMBED Videos by cutting and pasting from You-Tube, Vimeo etc. 
