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This seems to be a Japanese plate, 9" with four spur marks and an unknown reign mark. Can you help with date or any comments?
@musicnus
Hi David,
it's a beautiful example.
Japanese Meji period 1868-1912.
I can't read Japanese. But the first calligraphy starting from right to left is 'Great Nippon'.
During the late Meji period to early Taisho period the number of spur marks were slowly reducing to zero.
By the early Showa period rarely would one see any spur marks.
Mark
I also wondered why the vine pattern was so WIDE. I have other vine patterns but never this wide and complicated. Also, is all the unusual lines and markings on the outer edge of the foot. It seems WAY over done - why I ask myself.
David
Hi David,
Very nice. With the finely scalloped rim, Y spur pattern, wide base, blue circle well inside the foot...it looks a bit older to me. Early 19th would be my guess. Even late 18th. They made very similar plates into the early 20th century, hordes of them.... But this appears to be a finer, earlier example.
Todd
take it with a grain of salt
I love the three friends of winter pattern and I too believe the classic Y pattern of spurs is a good sign of age.
@musicnus
Hi David -
The ‘unusual lines/markings’ outer footrim edge design is ‘noughts and crosses’, although not a particular well drawn example of such. It is often seen on on dishes and bowls …
A nice piece, the central ‘Three friends of winter’ design, pine, bamboo and plum, been well drawn …
Stuart
Stuart, you are right, so it is. I hadn't noticed that before. I am on a large screen now and can really appreciate how nicely done the plate is. Todd may be correct with his appraisal: I agree it does have signs that suggest it could be earlier, but I tend to associate that style of decoration (with the roundel in the centre) with Meiji pieces.
I have had a quick look and not seen anything to change my mind but I would love to be persuaded. 😊
Friends, Thank you for your excellent input!
David
Hi David,
May I ask how substantial is the dish? Is the center thick? A pre-1800 plate would be thicker, noticeably in the center. Do you have something later to compare it to? The glaze would also have a different feel, but that is difficult to describe. As Julia rightly mentioned, this type of pattern is usually associated with Meiji and later, so more clues are needed.
take it with a grain of salt
Friends and Julia:
Watership: It does have a somewhat thicker center at 1lb 2oz. and 22cm.
Julia, I posted my plate on the Gotheborg sight and the link was perfect for this plate. Someone shared a VERY well researched article and discussion. The back of mine was exactly like the drawing and size at 22cm - and on the front the three friends motif. Comparing my back and theirs were EXACT including spurs and reign mark and vines with "rose". His final comment: "Which, for me, rather confirms a mid-18th c. probable date for Cliff's plate (below), without excluding entirely it could be from the early 19th c." Comments from others say 1750-1780. Below is The plate from Gotheborg:
David
That was interesting and informative reading. Those plates from Shibata are exquisitely decorated!
After looking at it all, I accept it is probably earlier than my initial early Meiji dating, perhaps 1830-1850. Although, I remain unconvinced of an earlier period, I have learnt a lot: especially about the central pattern, the karakusa etc but there are some things I can't quite feel comfortable with so I think on the whole I agree with John Wocher.
I hope you won't mind my still disagreeing, after all that is how we learn and who knows, I may yet change my mind. 😊 I certainly won't be giving up my Gotheborg subscription, I am sure of that!
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