There is alot at stake with this, as it is a big order and involves other items and alot of money. 

Here is another backmark from the 1960's

Hi Short Dong,

I think you are correct and that this item is modern, but I am in no way an expert on porcelain and will leave that to others to say and or judge.

When you say the seller is being difficult, what do you mean exactly?

Have you already paid for it using paypal and if so when did you pay?

The reason I am asking is that you can thru paypal cancel payment made but only within a certain time period and that the item has not already been sent etc ( you can also contact your bank to cancel payment, assuming your bank has the said amount pending before releasing funds). This is normal for banking practices here in Australia but I don't know in your jurisdiction.

Once that time period has expired and payment has been approved youwill have to wait x amount of days to open a dispute against the seller.

Did the seller offer returns or are they sold as is and no returns.

Mark

Hi,

If there are returns allowed, it may be easier to proceed with the sale and then return it as not being as described.  Assuming, that you are right, of course, and having seen the near identical vase on Gotheborg that does seem a possibility.  Have you shown the buyer your evidence of it being a later example?

It really is so important to research before you buy but impulsiveness afflicts us all, at times.   ? ? 

Julia

It is not fair on the seller in my opinion.

The style of decoration can date from late Qing onwards.

Complete the transaction and wait until you receive it.

Vic

Yeah I agree with the last comment , you cannot base your assessment of the date of an item on a mark found on Gotheborg. This chenghua mark was used in the late C19th , as well on  modern copies, and the item could well be late C19th. It looks ok to me .

Now you have bought the thing (and other items) , you should honour the transaction. The seller has done nothing wrong. 

Dear Short Dong,

I agree with the most recent comments posted here. In my view, the item you dispute could still be c. 1900. In which case, the seller would be correct in describing it as antique.

If you have bought multiple items from this seller, he should in principle be well disposed towards you and want to retain your custom. Honour the transaction, alert him to your reservations about one of the items, and wait to receive it before taking further action. Do more research on it at first hand. You shouldn't base your judgment solely on the etched reign mark, which may be found from c. 1900 and into the post-Republic period; you should also consider the nature of the enamels on the item.

One always appraises an item from a number of factors all in combination, never from one alone.

Best wishes,

Alan

If you compare the unglazed footrim of your jar , with the ones you posted from Gotheborg, you can see a clear difference , in colour (yours biscuity, modern ones cementy white) and texture (yours smooth looking , modern ones probably powdery), and form (your rounded,  modern ones square or flat).

The unglazed footrim is often the key to dating Chinese porcelain, in my view, because it can tell you about the real nature of the porcelain material (and experts can spot changing methods of refining , mixing the  porcelain ingredients), and about how the object was fired (again changing over the years, and centuries), and how the conventions for shaping, cutting the foot changed over time.  The unglazed bit is the hardest to reproduce , I believe, because the raw materials cannot be mixed in the same proportions and quality , and because modern kilns fire in their own distinct ways.

Which is why modern copyists often add dirt and other materials to the foot before firing , to hide the real colour and texture of the foot.

Hi Alan, Julia,Tam,Shine and Mark

I resolved this matter with the seller, and the problem arose because the sellers communication with me raised alarm bells.  Indeed we have all made assessments on the jar, but i asked the seller directly why he/she thought it was 19th century or antique, and i asked due to a secondary issue that arose in our transaction. 

I do honor all purchases, but the seller was trying to charge me  £20 postage, and that is the only reason i stalled on paying and then from these communications I became concerned. Not the worst seller and does communicate, but evaded the direct question of why the seller thought it was antique 2 times. 

So from that and the sneaky postage, the seller invoiced me max postage for each item, before i had a chance to request an invoice. I love when a seller send me an invoice with me asking and its got a reduced postage or a fair postage, but this seller 🙂 ( not cool) 

I feel the seller lacks integrity, regardless of whether this could pass off as 19th century. The greatest probability is that it is vintage. Since the seller cannot commit to saying why they think it is antique then it is vintage imo. 

I am pleased that you have resolved the matter amicably ? 

One should always honour their purchase whether on ebay and or other.

Research, research and confidence is your best friend when buying online.

If you have any doubts about any item, ask as many questions as you can in order to satisfy your view on said item. If the seller appears to be evasive and or vague, then you should either buy accordingly with the knowledge that it may not be authentic or just ignore it and move on.

I have in the past bought some very nice authentic items from people who simply did not know what they had.

You can over time gauge whether the person you are dealing with is genuine or not, simply by asking various questions.

Regards

Mark

 

''Since the seller cannot commit to saying why they think it is antique then it is vintage imo. " 

Good to hear it is now sorted, although  I don't quite understand the logic of the above quote.

Regardless of its actual age, this kind of warrior vase is common and not especially desirable, being mass-produced for export at the end of the Qing dynasty . They often turn up on ebay.

(There are some fine ones , with greater detail in the battle scenes and wider range of enamel colours)

Please take it slowly and use ebay tools , like the sold items lists,  to learn more .

Good point tam18.

Mass produced then and even more so now.

Have recently seen a few chinese so-called antique shops open with similar wares and other. They bring in a cargo full, stay here for 3 or 4 months and then gone!

Mark

Posted by: tam18

 

''Since the seller cannot commit to saying why they think it is antique then it is vintage imo. " 

Good to hear it is now sorted, although  I don't quite understand the logic of the above quote.

Regardless of its actual age, this kind of warrior vase is common and not especially desirable, being mass-produced for export at the end of the Qing dynasty . They often turn up on ebay.

(There are some fine ones , with greater detail in the battle scenes and wider range of enamel colours)

Please take it slowly and use ebay tools , like the sold items lists,  to learn more .

 

 

Tam

Yes, However if i bid on an item that is auctioned as an Antique then I expect that item to be an Antique. So why is it unusual to aks if it is antique. I only became suspicious because while trying to sort the postage with the seller, which was a red flag, i then casually, and very casually asked the seller roughly the age of the Jar. Ballpark, the seller did reply bit kept avoiding the question. So i became quite diredct and asked outright why it can be auctioned as Antique ...which is a fair question.

 The jar was one of a few items. and they were lovely items. I got them in bulk to save on postage, which would give me almost a fair market price even in the event the Jar was vintage.

I also had a vase which i think actually was antique or close enough and it was a fair size, so i wanted to the transaction to succeed. Incidentally i did send all this info to the seller. They just cancelled and gave me a generic reply. 

If a seller auctions a modern item as antique and then tries to mug you with the postage, then i expect that seller to justify the postage cost by proving the item is antique. If i was to pay over £20 in postage to get a 1960's vintage jar, then i would be a mug. 

The seller got greedy, got caught and that is what happens when you try to sell me postage.

Hi ShortDong,

looking up the faces of your vase in Tommy Eklöf's book of faces I would say it is 1950 or later. He has a special category for these white warriors' faces, and the older ones just look different to me. Tommy Eklöf also says that decorations become more simplified over time, which is the case with this vase. Here are some examples from the book - sorry for the quality, it was just a snapshot with my phone. The one in the middle is from ca. 1900, the ones on the left and right are from ca. 1950.