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Cranes Everywhere. Blue and white Arita 12" plate/charger. Is this old? Meijii?

 
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 Neil Mackay
(@neil-m)
Eminent Member
Joined: 1 month ago
Posts: 21
Topic starter 15/07/2025 8:22 am  

Hi, this is the first blue and white piece that I have ever bought. Before this I did not like blue and white porcelain, but I really like this because of the use of the different shades of blue. I think the formation of the volcano in the background is a wonderful use of negative space as is the lighting on the branches of the pine trees. And of course the cranes. My question is whether this is oldish or vintage. I bought it thinking that it had some age.

At first I thought that it was a transfer but I've studied it pretty exhaustively and don't think so. 

The way that there are cranes on the ground, some eating from the pine tree, then cranes flying up and also coming around the volcano and descending gives me a 'circle of life' or reincarnation theme. It's a pretty idyllic scene in my view. What do you think?

BlueVolcanoPLate
BlueAndWhiteCranes6
BlueAndWhiteCranes3
BlueAndWhiteCranes2
BlueAndWhiteCranes2

 


   
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
(@imperialfinegems)
Mark Adams
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7179
15/07/2025 9:12 am  

Yes I think it's either very late Meiji or Taisho period. 

Are you certain it's not transfer printed because from your pictures it certainly does look it.

Regardless it's a beautiful scene...i like cranes. 

Mark 


   
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 Neil Mackay
(@neil-m)
Eminent Member
Joined: 1 month ago
Posts: 21
Topic starter 15/07/2025 10:41 am  

Hi Mark,

Yes, cranes are wonderful birds. I have looked at this using a loup and I couldn't really tell. I was looking for dots like pixels but didn't see any. Also, it just seems too intricate. I'll look again. And I agree, either way it's a very pleasing scene!


   
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Steve
 Steve
(@steve)
Famed Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 1825
15/07/2025 12:03 pm  

@neil-m Hi Neil,

You won't see ben-day dots on this kind of transfer. 

To check to see if anythings hand-painted, look for the brush strokes; they should each tell a story, as it were. Little pools of darker color, the direction it was painted, etc. Transfer images don't have that. 


   
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 Neil Mackay
(@neil-m)
Eminent Member
Joined: 1 month ago
Posts: 21
Topic starter 15/07/2025 12:11 pm  

@steve Ok thank you. I'll have another look. I'm thinking now that it is transfer. The ultimate effect is different to a hand painted image.Thanks for the information. I shall borrow my friend's electronic microscope and take photos.


   
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Sharon P
 Sharon P
(@sharonp)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 4574
15/07/2025 1:31 pm  

@neil-m

There are two types of Japanese transfer, stencil (generally older) and the more recent transfer printed. Also, the Japanese have highlighted transfer with some handpainting details atop the transfer. The older  end of 19th century stencil type will often have the unmarked bulls eye base and very deep cobalt. I like the cranes. The older spur pattern made from the raised stints for the kiln is often in the classic Y pattern. For larger pieces, they may have several spur marks on older chargers in a circular pattern.

This post was modified 4 hours ago by Sharon P

   
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 Neil Mackay
(@neil-m)
Eminent Member
Joined: 1 month ago
Posts: 21
Topic starter 15/07/2025 1:51 pm  

@sharonp Thank you Sharon for sharing that info. As you see this plate has the bulls eye back. I've just checked and I have a 10" plate with the spur marls {4) in a circle and then one in the middle.

I have another 12" plate that I'm sure is transfer but which seems to have been clobbered! I will put the images up tomorrow and ask about it. I believe that there is a sub group who collect transfer decorated porcelains. Thanks again.


   
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Sharon P
 Sharon P
(@sharonp)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 4574
15/07/2025 3:21 pm  

@neil-m

IMG 6631x
IMG 6628x

 

This is what I meant by a bull's eye base and this is an example of stencil.

Here is an example of regular transfer

IMG 6637x
IMG 6640x

Here is an example of both on the same piece, the center stencil and the outside transfer, you can see where the transfer overlapped.

IMG 6699x
IMG 6701x

 


   
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Sharon P
 Sharon P
(@sharonp)
Illustrious Member
Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 4574
15/07/2025 3:41 pm  

P.S. I enlarged the photo of your piece and another way to tell that it is transfer is if there is no individual differences in the border design, as there would be on a hand painted design. On hand drawn diaper pattern on borders, they do not conform to one another.

This post was modified 2 hours ago by Sharon P

   
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 Neil Mackay
(@neil-m)
Eminent Member
Joined: 1 month ago
Posts: 21
Topic starter 15/07/2025 4:02 pm  

@sharonp That was very informative. My other plate/charger doesn't have the bulls eye. Just the four spur marks around a central spur mark. With the crane plate I see a lot of breaks in the lines and there is no overlapping. I think it's maybe some stencil, brushwork and transfer all combined. I have just run my finger over the surfaces of vases that are definitely hand painted and I can feel a slight unevenness over the decoration. With the crane plate I don't feel that, it is very smooth. 

I've avoided porcelains with that bulls eye base because I don't understand them yet. Peter did go into them when he was pointing out fakes in one of his recent videos. I'll have to go through them again and see what he says. At the moment I am only buying things that I really like aesthetically and which are well made. I get my hands on them and that's how I learn. As long as I am having fun that's cool, is my motto! Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and tomorrow I'm going to upload quite an interesting plate which I think is clobbered. I haven't photographed it yet.


   
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