The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.
Basic Rules For the BidAmount Asian Art Forum: Talk about whatever you want. You can even discuss and offer things that are for sale if they are authentic. Maximum image file size per post is 2 MB. Images of 700pxl x 700pxl are optimal if saved at a medium resolution. Be respectful of others and enjoy yourself. Click the YouTube link for a brief tutorial on using the forum. You can also EMBED Videos by cutting and pasting from You-Tube, Vimeo etc.
NOTE: To post an item or add a new post, click open the category title from the FORUM LIST, and CLICK the Blue ADD TOPIC button.
25 cm across. What do you think?
Not my area of thought atm. Looking at this plate I think it is not from said period but perhaps a later copy. The seal mark looks to my eye to be a little stiff in said strokes. Perhaps Stuart or others could post their thoughts.
Is this something you already own or looking to purchase/other?
Mark
Hi Avatar/Cory -
For comparison, attached images of three base shards with Hongzhi marks recovered from the Imperial kiln site at Zhushan in 2004, and a green enamelled Hongzhi m/p dish, D. 20 cm, H 4.5 cm, FD 12 cm, with incised dragons/clouds, from the Gugong, Beijing ...
Note the difference in the painting styles, and also the drawing of the mark, especially the ‘Hong’ and ‘Zhi’ characters, all very different then the dish you posted ...
Stuart
Many thanks for the feedback.
The pictures are copied from the UK auctioneer mallams' site, where it is undated and sold well above the estimate. https://www.mallams.co.uk/sales/cheltenham/bs010519/view-lot/76/ This is the six character Hongzhi mark I can find online, which come closest when comparing the caligraphic style, appearing on a blue an white dragon dish sold at Sotheby's. http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2016/pilkington-collection-of-chinese-art-hk0639/lot.28.html
Hi Avatar/Cory -
Mallams does not describe this piece as mark and period and, although I don’t know the condition, the estimate and price achieved would indicate that it was not ...
I have seen damaged but similar authentic Hongzhi m/p pieces obtain £60-80,000 at auction in recent years ...
Stuart
I agree with Stuart assessment of this so-called plate of dubious origins.
In the pictures one can see evidence of a hairline crack.
Just purely bidders getting caught up in the moment of what might have been versus reality. I see this time and time again. It never ceases to amaze me. 🤔
In my opinion based on posted pictures if one looks clearly the porcelain paste is neither pure white nor is it off-white. It is sugary-white consistent with later period productions.
Mark
Thanks again Stuart and Mark.
Yes, I know Mallams did not describe the plate as Hongzhi period. That's why I posted it here, to see what people would say. But there was also a yellow and green dragon bowl with Zhengde mark described as possibly Ming dynasty but that sold for "only" £10,000. https://www.mallams.co.uk/sales/cheltenham/bs010519/view-lot/181/ A similar bowl sold for £40,000 at Christie's. https://www.christies.com/lotfinder/Lot/a-fine-green-and-yellow-enamelled-dragon-bowl-5499670-details.aspx
And there was a celadon ewer dated to the 18th/19th century that also sold for £10,000 but that probably dates to the early Ming dynasty and could sell for £100,000 on a good day at Christie's. https://www.mallams.co.uk/sales/cheltenham/bs301019/view-lot/82/
@ avatar
Not my area of thought as of yet but from my limited observations I see that the imperial yellow glaze appears to be very harsh. The way the dragon is portrayed is a little bit contrived and stiff. Lastly although not prevalent in known examples to, to much extend is the lack of any weathering marks. I understand imperial pieces in the palace would have sat in the same spot almost untouched. But in private hands I find it almost inconceivable that said would not have been moved or handled over the different generations or more importantly owners etc. The presant one looks very new imo. I of course could be very wrong with this type of thought etc.
The seal mark lacks fluidity. Very stiff and written without any skill with the calligrapher. Something you would never ever see on genuine examples etc. One only has to look at the 2 examples of the seal mark to the sloppiness. The first mark on the rhd is on an angle. Strange. 🤔
I would after viewing these items from this auction house be very cautious in dealing with them unless they provide Mark and Period guarantee in the terms etc.
Mark
Hi Avatar/Cory -
The ewer sold by Mallams is certainly not early Ming, attached image is of a Longquan ewer/cover, H. 33 cm, from the NPM, Taipei, dated to the early Ming period. Note the differences in design - the Mallams piece is lifeless by comparison ...
The Mallams Zhengde bowl is also not mark/period. Attached images of three pieces with four-character marks recovered from the Imperial kiln site during the 2003/4 and 2014 excavations, and also a unfinished biscuit- fired bowl, MD. 19.9 cm, with dragon and cloud in slip which was discarded as unsatisfactory before completion. Again, note the differences in the writing of the mark - although this did vary during this period - but also the dragon, clouds, flaming pearl and lotus panels - all very different to the Mallams piece ...
Stuart
Apologies - two images with Zhengde marks!!🙄 ...
Stuart and Mark, you might well be right about the the Zhengde marked bowl, I haven't looked much at it, I just noted it in Mallams' sale highlights section together with the celadon ewer so I thought I would post them.
I'm not sure if I agree that the celadon ewer is "certainly not early Ming". The decoration on the ewer at NPM is superb but the decoration on Mallams' ewer compares much better to the example I linked to at Christie's (IMHO) and possibly even better to this one, also from Christie's: https://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/a-carved-longquan-celadon-ewer-early-ming-6095321-details.aspx?from=salesummery&intobjectid=6095321&sid=b452cb8c-2f92-4e4b-9992-e2bbcec4b8e8 Two differences I did notice between Mallams' ewer and the examples I could find online is the shape of the mouth and the way the handle is attached to the neck part but this ewer from Sotheby's has very similar mouth and attachments: http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/lot.2997.html/2008/fine-chinese-ceramics-and-works-of-art-hk0269
/Corey
Sorry to butt in, I know very little about these items but I have been following this with interest (thanks all) and I just wanted to say that for me the Mallam's ewer is way inferior to the others. I am not speaking of the decoration but the form, particularly of the rounded belly. In the Mallam's example the pot almost sags towards the ground whereas the others seem to swell sinuously upwards and outwards. They are so gracefully shaped in comparison to the rather lumpen Mallam's piece which simply isn't as finely potted or as elegant.
That's what I see anyway. I wouldn't mind selling that piece for that amount, but I wouldn't buy it, it looks too stiff and lifeless - as others said.
That's true. A sharp observation. Or at least I hadn't noticed that. But there are Ming porcelain ewers that has the same lumpen form for example these that dates to the Yongle period. My fist thought when I saw Mallams' ewer was actually if it could be of the Yongle period. http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2011/fine-chinese-ceramics-and-works-of-art-hk0363/lot.1918.html https://www.christies.com/lotfinder/Lot/an-important-and-exceptionally-rare-early-ming-5001482-details.aspx
Actually the original reason why I originally"bookmarked" Mellers' auction was because of a couple of sancai jars (lot 101 + 102) stated to be of the tang period and provenanced. They sold for only $500 each if I recall. That would be a very advantageous price since the estimate of similar jars are usually around $8,000 - 10,000 at the major auction houses. And there ere some nice Song pieces which shared the same provenance as you can see. https://issuu.com/mallams/docs/cheltenham_oriental_autumn_18/16 It was onlly because I came across the Hongzhi marked dragon plate that I thought looked interesting I started this thread that now went a little out of control.
Latest Post: Kutani dish - Edo or Meiji? Our newest member: James Close Recent Posts Unread Posts
Thanks for visiting "The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art"
If you sell on eBay, or have a shop feel free to post images and descriptions and links.
Check back often for discussion about the latest news in the Chinese art and antique world. Also find out about the latest Asian art auctions at Sotheby's, Christie's, Bonhams and Tajans.
Auction results for: fine porcelain, ceramics, bronze, jade, textiles and scholar's objects. As well as Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese and other Asian cultures.
Thank you,
Peter Combs
Topics and categories on The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
Join the BidAmount Chinese and Asian art discussion board and forum today
The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
The art of calligraphy - and for the ancient Chinese it certainly was an art - aimed to demonstrate superior control and skill using brush and ink. Calligraphy established itself as one of the major Chinese art forms during the Han dynasty (206 BCE - 220 CE), and for two millennia after, all educated men were expected to be proficient at it.
The Museum’s collections of Asian art span nearly five millennia and encompass the cultures of China, the Himalayas, India, Japan, Korea, and Southeast Asia. In 2007, the Museum launched an initiative to create dedicated galleries for the collection, beginning with a gallery for the arts of Korea ...
Chinese art is full of symbolism, in that artists typically seek to depict some aspect of a totality of which they are intuitively aware.
China Online Museum is the finest online museum of Chinese art. It features Chinese calligraphy, painting, ceramics, bronzes, carving, and other artworks.
Chinese Ceramics & Works of Art. Overview Upcoming auctions Contacts Auction results ... Christie’s sales of Chinese ceramics and works of art showcase centuries of Chinese history. Held throughout the year in London, New York, Paris and Hong Kong, they attract a wide audience of collectors and connoisseurs vying for pieces as diverse as ...
Explore Asian Art Week. Contact the Specialist Department. Chinese Paintings ... Senior Specialist, Head of Sale. [email protected]. Tel:+1 212 641 5760. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 September 2019 at New York. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 ...
Discover an abundance of must-see art from all corners of a vast continent at Christie’s NY Asian Art Week. From contemporary classical and Chinese paintings to works with exemplary provenance from the Art Institute of Chicago, our Rockefeller Paza galleries will be full of ancient treasures and contemporary masterworks in a salute to the vibrant arts of Asia.
Sold to benefit The Art Institute of Chicago’s Asian Art Acquisition Fund, the sale features 84 lots with a focus on Ming and Qing porcelains, and offers a rare insight into the taste for collecting Chinese ceramics and works of art in the Midwest from the end of the 19th century through the 1980s. Highlights include two Wanli wucai garlic-head vases, a Qianlong mark and period, blue and ...
Specialist, Chinese Paintings, Christie's London Dr Malcolm McNeill is a Specialist in Chinese Paintings at Christie’s, based in London. He previously worked as an assistant curator of the Chinese collections and the Victoria and Albert Museum in London, as a researcher at the British Museum, and as a translator and tour guide at the National Palace Museum in Taipei.
The Christie's Education 2020 Conference: The Chinese Art Market 18 Jun 2019 Christie’s Education is delighted to announce our first international academic conference in Asia which will take place in Hong Kong from 26-27 November 2020 at the Hong Kong Convention and Exhibition Centre and will run in parallel with Christie’s Hong Kong Autumn Auctions.
The summer Chinese Art sale in Hong Kong will feature works of art from several private collections, including Qing porcelains and textile from the collection of the legendary Chinese art dealer A. W. Bahr (1877–1959), fine gilt bronze Buddhist sculptures from an old Hong Kong collection, an East Asian collection of Qing dynasty wine cups and jades, and a Japanese collection of Song ceramics ...
Sotheby's Chinese Works of Art Department holds two auctions each year in London, New York, Hong Kong and Paris.
Chinese Art - View Auction details, bid, buy and collect the various artworks at Sothebys Art Auction House.
With more than 340 Chinese works of art dating from the Neolithic to the Republic periods, highlights of this sale include a selection of Qing Imperial monochromes from the collection of Arnold and Blema Steinberg, early ceramics from the Art Institute of Chicago and Chinese porcelain and works of art from the collection of Henry Arnhold.
Results: Sotheby's Asia Week achieved $52.4 million in six strong auctions, exceeding pre-sale estimates. With 76.5% of lots sold and 60.3% of lots surpassing high estimates, the Asian art sales at Sotheby's indicate continued collector interest in the finest works of art from China, India and and the Himalayas.
Today's sale of Important Chinese Art will proceed as planned with sessions at 10 AM and 2 PM EDT. Sotheby's will be monitoring the weather conditions throughout the day and will be available to coordinate alternative bidding options should conditions make it difficult for clients to attend the auction in person.
Bonhams Chinese Art department is renowned for offering the finest works of art representing the richness and breadth of China's artistic heritage, particularly Imperial porcelain, white and spinach green jades, cloisonné and Buddhist art. Specialised international auctions are held globally, including London, Hong Kong and San Francisco.
Bonhams : Chinese Works of Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Chinese Art (US) General enquiries
Bonhams : Fine Chinese Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars Bonhams : Asian Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site.
Bonhams are international auctioneers of fine Chinese and Japanese art. We specialise in rare Imperial and Export Chinese ceramics and works of art, as well as Japanese ceramics, fine and decorative works of art from the Neolithic Period to the 20th century. View on map
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Asian Art Bonhams. Work. 22 Queen St.