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Hello everyone, Happy Sunday, i have a question about this, i am really into this kind of antique, i think is the colors, but can i have get some advise if this is old or new and how can you tell? i want to learn, thank you
Hi,
I seem to remember reading that seeing a red colour in the Greek key border is an indication of an older piece.
I am worried I have that the wrong way round, but I can't find the information, so I hope someone else can confirm.
Julia
Red dragon known for late Qing early 20th but this rule is used onward. These have Hong Kong attributes etc Japanese porcelain company.
To me it has a 1970s look. Can’t tell you why, it’s just a feeling. Maybe it’s the phoenix and the general color scheme.
Birgit
In my opinion these cups are both chinese and from the guangxu period 1875-1908.
Kindly note the four clawed dragon and his green eyes.
Although it's worth noting that these types of wares were made during the Republic period right through to the current production.
Just my thoughts. I think it is guangxu but they could be much later.
Mark
@imperialfinegems thanks mark, "write down 4 claws and green eyes"
I have had a much closer look at your cups Birgit and I rarely disagree. So it prompted me to look closer She has a very good eye. Much better than myself!
They are definitely chinese. The seal mark is written not stamped. Which could indicate a earlier product but not conclusive.
The mult-coloured Greek/other design at the top of the cups could be problematic and a indication of later production.
So these cups are either guangxu period or mass produced 70's cups.
I think on reflection based purely on the sloppy and stiffness that these are a product of the later part of the 20th century. So Birgit is correct I believe. 😊
Kindly see the stiffness/sloppy design here. You would not see this on guangxu and highly unlikely during the Republic period. But you will see it on later production.
Mark
@imperialfinegems thanks mark and Birgit, i definitely learned something new today =)
@imperialfinegems @shinigami Hello Mark and shinigam , I also saw this cup, it looks similar but quite different style, for this style what we should be looking at? thank you!
I’m with Birgit. I think in one off Peters videos he mentioned green eyes as a warning sign. I’m not of the opinion that late Qing was not sloppy. Here is my bowl of this style.
I also agree with Birgit, the dragon is not drawn correctly for Guangxu. I have been searching for the information I mentioned in earlier post and have found a similar comment from Michaela Russell on Gotheborg:
"In addition, the key fret border always has an iron red fret (absent on all frets after 1949) and often has a pale pink coloured fret as well, ..."
Also, apparently if there is red present, it is cherry red.
@tigerdx Apart from the general impression I always look at the bottom and on the two little cups it looks brand new, no traces of age. Of course it would also look pristine on an imperial quality item but ask yourself how likely it is to stumble upon imperial quality outside from a very good dealer or auction house.
Birgit
@julia I don’t know if I understood that correctly. Here’s a small plate that I would say looks ok for Guangxu but there’s no iron red fret on the border.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/284281088545
Birgit
I am probably not the person to ask (shame she isn't a member), but I think these posts were old and maybe her view has changed somewhat in the course of her research. I wish I could have found the other remark or more about her work on this.
I agree, I think that plate looks ok for Gauangxu, too. Maybe then this plate is a rare exception? Or possibly the pink can appear on its own, so that iron red wasn't absolutely necessary. Without any more knowledge as to how this work progressed, maybe it is safe to say that if it does appear in the border, it is a reliable indicator of date of manufacture?
I think I may try to find out some more. 😊
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