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Does this look like it could be a China trade painting? It's the only picture I have to go on at the moment.
I've been researching and it is clearly based on the Hongs of Canton pictures. I am not clear on if this is a reproduction or a modern copy. What I also find interesting is that the Dutch and Spanish flags seem to be miscolored. So curious to know what others think of this.
What does the seller say about it?
@julia I've got no info to go on. It's just one of the many pictures posted for an estate sale I'm planning to go to. They don't even mention the word China anywhere in the sale write up. I don't know if they know exactly what this is, which I've seen happen at these sales. Either that or it's a reproduction and so they know it's nothing great, but I don't think that is the case because they did choose to put up a photo of it so they want people to know about it, even if they aren't clear about how to describe it. At any rate I'm kind of flying in the dark until I can actually go lay eyes on it up close. If this is authentic, do you think this looks like an oil painting or could this be a reverse glass? It seems that many of these Hongs of Canton were made and that they have a wide variety of value in the four and five figures. Maybe it will be a lucky find. At any rate, any and all pointers are welcome. I want to show up as informed as possible so if I get the chance to buy it I can hopefully make a good decision. I have no idea what they will want for it either.
Estate sales must be really interesting to go to. Are you allowed to ask questions pre-sale? Request more photos?
I have looked at the photo and can tell absolutely nothing from it. All I can suggest is to compare the way the flags, boats, other factors (eg the painting is very empty of people) were done with other works. Look at as many as you can and go to the sale remembering that one swallow does not make a summer! 😊
Good luck!
Hi John,
We are a bit stymied by the photo understand not your fault as is the Auction house photo. As far as I can see the frame seems a little suspect to me, looks pretty modern to me. Wonder what that white rectangle is that runs around the inside edge it seems to overlap some of the picture so it is not an inside mount. Could be an old painting or print that has been re-framed of course. If you go to the sale perhaps you will let us know more, take your torch and magnifying glass.
Regards
Michael
@julia The estate sales are interesting. There is an opportunity to send messages and ask for more info leading up to the sale but it depends on how they operate. And I have not had good luck with getting better or additional pictures in advance so it's always an adventure!
@brettm I also noticed and wondered about that white line going around. I wonder if it is just a design element on the glass frame? I don't know enough about frames to know if that is a thing that they ever do. I am planning to go to the sale to see this puppy for myself and I've also sent the sale people a message regarding previewing the sale or getting better pictures/more info prior. I'll let you guys knows how it goes.
Johnshoe, I do not often post any more, with all the smart folks here I have very little to add but on first impression of your picture it has a feel of a hand coloured stipple print. A very Victorian thing. The photo isn’t good enough to make out the details but the way the clouds and other smaller details have a washed in look of water colour paints strongly reminds me of several antique prints of this style I own.
Ron
@ronm Interesting, Ron. So, when I go check this out I will be looking for signs of that up close. I know very little about painting and prints but hopefully I will be able to tell the difference. I imagine if it is a painting I'll be able to see the textures and possibly cracking, whereas the print would be smooth, more flat, etc. We have some old prints from the 1800's that are colored so I imagine that is what they would mostly be like so I do have some minimal familiarity. I guess the main thing I am worried about is not being able to tell with confidence if it is a more modern painted reproduction because that is something I am not educated on. But hey, I'll have my loupe so I'll be looking the part!
@ronm So I was just realizing that it could be painted in watercolor as you mentioned which would be smooth but still be painted. So, how would I be able to tell an authentic older watercolor and a later print that had water color added? Any pointers are welcomed! I'm learning on the fly.
Hi Johnshoe,
What bothers me about this particular item is the white border printed on the image. I suspect this image is a later 20th century print. You will never see a painting with a border like this, but are often done on later prints to assist framers etc. Also as posted by Brettm I believe the frame is new and possibly made from resin.
This image is well-known and has been painted with varying themes etc.
Personally based on one image I would not bid/buy this item without closer inspection. If it's a later print which I suspect then it's practically worthless in my opinion.
I always enjoy reading your posts.
Mark
@imperialfinegems I agree, if that white line is actually on the picture itself then I would have no interest. I think I will go have a look just so I can tell for sure that it isn't some odd design that is on the glass rather than the picture. If I could find another copy of this specific version of the scene then that would answer the question but I haven't been able to find this one exactly, just a bunch that are similar, so it still retains some of it's mystery for the time being. But don't you find it odd about two of the flags being rendered incorrectly? I find that to be bizzare and not something that would be on a print because wouldn't they want to make a print of one that is accurate? But there I go using logic again - Giiovanni has warned me of such things when it comes to the world of Chinese reproductions.
@johnshoe, old prints were impact printed, this compressed the paper and left a raised edge on the periphery of the paper, most modern copies are contact printed or one of the new computer printers. The white edge you see may not be a line but the edge of of the plate that has no print on it. All older (150 year or older) should have the raised edge on the paper. Also, the paper should have some discolouration from shear age of the paper, usually a yellow or buff tinge. This is do to quality of the paper during manufacture, if the unprinted area on the edge is to white like modern paper you can bet it is probably a newer print. As far as the washing of colours, the look of old hand painted print can be copied pretty accurately now so unless you can get a good look, preferably out of the frame it may be hard to tell.
This is assuming it is a print and not a water colour.
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