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Dear all,
today I was viewing a few lots of a local auction tomorrow.
They are selling a large lot of Chinese porcelain and I am interested in one piece of that. I would like to know, what you think about two blue and white vases that are sold in that lot as well.
To me they look like late 19. century pieces. However I am a bit unsure because of the wax seals on the bottom of one vase. Moreover I think, that the design of the second vase may be printed. I know that the pictures are not the best...
What do you think?
Regards
Robin
First vase looks 19th century second vase looks later but photos are to blurry.
Hi Robin,
Admittedly I can't see perfectly, but it doesn't look printed to me. In fact, in the middle photo, at he base of the neck on the upper side, there looks to be signs of brush work. Obviously, you have held it so I may be wrong, but it looks ok from where I am sitting. 😊
The wax seal simply means it was permitted for export, no more, no less than that. I don't know if these are being forged to any great extent but I think it looks rather nice.
Let's see what the others say. Was there any reason in particular why you think it might be printed?
Julia
The second vase has a Fitzhugh pattern though it’s probably later than 1800. Both might from the end of the 19th century. The painting quality of the second vase is better. Fitzhugh is often mistaken for printed because it’s so carefully done. If I had to decide I would go for the Fitzhugh vase. If you have the chance to see it in person, bring a strong loupe (at least 20x) that will show if it’s printed.
I found this one but don’t know if it was from 1800.
https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/chinese-fitzhugh-pattern-blue-white-vase-98-c-de342b2be6
Birgit
Looking at the Fitzhugh vase on the big screen it seems more likely it's a real one from Jiaqing. Held against a white piece of paper the background should be a yellowish grey. Here are some detailed pictures for you to compare:
Birgit
Birgit, I wondered if it was a fitzhugh border, but as I don’t know enough about the patterns, and not having seen it on a vase, I didn't like to comment especially as it may have put the date back towards 1800 which I wasn't sure of from those few pictures.
It would be a nice piece to have if you are correct - and I think you are. I assume the clearance for export might be because as an export piece, it would perhaps not have been regarded as culturally valuable? Although interesting that it wasn't exported after it was made. Or maybe it was and came back.
You could legally purchase antique pieces in Beijing in 1992 but they were not rarities or items deemed to be culturally significant. I personally would leave the red wax seal attached, because it is part of the history of the piece and contains information, as to where it was legally purchased in China.
Dear all,
thanks for your help. I found another picture in very bad quality but at least it shows the vase in whole.
I thought that it may be printed because of the very high painting quality and consistence. Personally I do think that is is 19. century as well as the footrim looks pretty standard for that period.
thanks for the tip with the loupe! I will take on with me on the next viewings I go to.
Now I´ll need to figure out, how much I´ll bid on it as it will for sure be serious money for the lot.
Regards
Robin
Looks like nice objects to me. Maybe you can get the lot for a decent price. If you are attracted to them you should go for it. Other than the two vases what else is in the lot?
The lot sold for 1500€ excl. premium. I was not 100% sure about the value and was outbid at 600. There were a few more pieces included.
Regards Robin
That's a shame for you. I imagine a few people may have wanted that vase. The other was nice, too.
since you are using relatively strong language („a shame to you“) I wonder, what would have been a fair price for this lot. Was there a bargain at 1500€ that I did not see?
Since a am relatively new to collecting and even newer to buying higher quality pieces I do sometimes tend to let good opportunities pass. Was this the case?
Regards
Robin
I think this is a language thing. I simply meant it was a shame for you in the sense of "wie schade" or that it was " eine Enttäuschung" for you. It is quite easy-going language in English, I think maybe "Schande" is stronger?
As for the lot, I just assumed maybe several people wanted probably the Fitzhugh vase and there was a bidding war. I didn't really mean more than that, it was just expressing my feeling that it would have been nice if you could have got them. I don't know what they usually go for but I feel that interest in pieces of that age and into the later 19th c may be increasing along with a decline in interest in say general Qianlong era items. That is just a thought.
Anyway, sorry if I caused confusion. 😊
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