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Well, I bought this at a sale. It's 17.5 inches in diameter. It has a ribbed style interior, although I'm not sure if that is the correct way to term it. And the very center rises up in a little bump. I'm not sure if it is Japanese or Chinese or how old it is. Maybe Japanese 19th C? It is pretty beat up with several hairlines on the rim and a couple of chips. I think I've seen pictures of pieces with all the blackness on the back, but I don't know what that is or if it helps to date it. Is that from getting burned in the kiln? At any rate, it's an interesting large piece and I'd like to know what you all think of it. Beyond that, I do wonder what my wife will say when she gets home.... John
She will probably want to see if she can scrub some of the black off the rim, have you tried to clean it? I think it is very pretty and Japanese but since I don't see the y stilt marks, maybe later Arita than earlier.
P.S. I think I may be seeing some stilt marks, the longer I stare at it and I think the decoration does look like 19th century, I think it is a nice piece. Maybe JRN or Todd will see it.
@sharonp That black stuff almost seems like paint. I am baffled by it. I have not tried to wash it off but I hope I can get it removed. Not sure how to go about it. The one mark right in the center on the bottom seems like it could be a stilt type of mark, but that is the only one that I see. The other marks on the bottom I think are just normal glaze imperfections, etc. Did they ever just have one stilt in the center or were there always a grouping of them? Here is a closer up picture of it:
The good news is that my wife likes the plate. The other news is that when she realized I may have also brought home the ash urn of some unknown former living being, she glared at me for quite some time with a wtf kind of look on her face. But alas, one will balance the other out. And I still hold out hope it is pearls and diamonds in the jar rather than ash and bones bits.
Could the black stuff be some kind of adhesive that was used as part of a mounting system?
Hi John,
Nice looking plate Sharon is on the right track with Arita. Warm water and dish-washing liquid and a soft brush might help you might have to let it soak a bit. As you have it home take it outside in natural light and re photograph it, take a close up of part of the decorated area and will see if it is hand painted. Is that writing on the basket at the center of the plate. It is good size you may of found a good item.
Cheers
Michael
I feel like there are replicated images on the plate, so perhaps that means it is transferred? I know that is a thing but I don't know much about it. The shading varies, but I think the lines of the images repeat pretty exactly on both sides. At any rate, here are some closer up pictures I just took outside.
Hi Johnshoe,
In my opinion it's arita ware charger. It looks like it's transfer printed.
As to dating. I would suggest early 20th century. So in my opinion 1920's.
Mark
Hi John,
That was quick ! My thought is stenciled and then hand filled rather than transfer printed , looks to have been done with care. I think 19thc although the Japanese used the stencil method earlier than 19thc, I say 19thc due to the crowded decoration. Could be late Edo but more likely Meiji. Lets see what others think. Hope that dirt comes off. One stilt mark is not unusual.
Michael
@brettm What is the difference between stenciled and transfer printed? I know nothing and so I'm trying to look things up and I come across a piece listed as "transferred stencil ware" which seems to combine the two terms! So now I'm really confused....
Hi John,
I am going to give you a couple of links to try and explain would take a lot of typing and as our posts here soon get lost as new posts come in I think it best if I give you a lot of reading instead. But real quick with transfer printing you get a solid outline to things. With paper cut stencils you get a broken out line to things. Hope this helps.
Michael.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_printing
https://www.lib.uidaho.edu/digital/hjccc/glossary/katagami-paper-stencil.html
Hi John,
I think Michael is right about the stencil. I get the two terms confused also. Your charger has mirrored images. Flip the stencil over, and this could be done, I imagine. I don’t remember seeing transferred pieces with mirrored images. And the hand filling also points to a stencil I would think. I know that neatly-made transfer items were made, but most of the ones I see are a bit messy looking to me. I prefer the stencil, if that’s what this is.
As for the date, I tend to think early 20th when I see a big charger with just one spur. But that would be the only piece of evidence I am relying on. And its not a hard, fast rule...
Todd
take it with a grain of salt
Hi All,
The reason I have gone with a slightly earlier date is the blue. It is impossible to say with certainty because of the low quality photo's but from what I can see I don't think the plate is chemical blue. I think Wenger blue came in to use in the 1870's and was in pretty much in universal use by the turn of the century especially on printed wares. Plus the very crowded decoration is typical of late Victorian taste. By the 1920's there was a turn away from over decoration in the west and as these type of things were intended for export they reflected this change. Of course the possibility that this charger is a modern confection exists using a litho or photographic printing method but it is impossible to say due to the photo's. That unnatural dirty base is a worry.
I quite like some stenciled printed items they seem to me to have a certain child like quality and the with best examples you get a unintended geometric pattern within the intended decoration.
Michael
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