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Hello,
would it be possible to Identify this huge Charger? it has a 62cm Diameter.
we believe its Japanese but we are not sure how old it is. and maybe its value if possible ?
Looking forward to hear your comment.
Thank you very much.
I believe your post is Chinese rather than Japanese. It feature's two dragon's facing each other amongst waves.
Mark
The spur marks on the base (from a kiln stand) and the blue rings around the foot are clear signs of a Japanese item, and the way the dragons are painted - very fierce - also look very Japanese.
This charger is a very impressive and desirable size, and the decoration is very fine, and strong. I would guess it is mid- to late C19th (meiji period). Value is another matter, because it is rare to find such a huge thing, and a lot would depend on condition . On the other side, Japanese porcelain does not command very high prices now , but I think around $1000 would be a good price (if the condition is excellent), and some people may be willing to pay much more.
Because this is a display piece (and a conversation piece) , with a good subject and strong colours etc, you could well see this in an antique shop for $5000.
tam
Thank you very much for the informaion 🙂
Wow! I agree with Tam: this is an impressive Japanese charger.
Generally speaking, the number of spur marks indicate whether or not the item is older (more spurs) or more recent. This plate has a number of spurs but I would hesitate to date it any earlier than Tam has because I imagine that, in this instance, the spurs relate to the size.
The colour also suggest Meiji.
Best wishes,
Julia
Thanks alot Julia 🙂
Wow! I agree with Tam: this is an impressive Japanese charger.
Generally speaking, the number of spur marks indicate whether or not the item is older (more spurs) or more recent. This plate has a number of spurs but I would hesitate to date it any earlier than Tam has because I imagine that, in this instance, the spurs relate to the size.
The colour also suggest Meiji.
Best wishes,
Julia
Hi all,
The charger is impressive, yet I am not sure if it really is Meiji. Looks more like a later, 20th C style of decoration. Also the foot looks younger than Meiji. It's a later copy of Meiji plate in my opinion.
Regards,
Adrian.
Feel free to browse the store:
www.malkaart.com
Inquiries:
[email protected]
I did wonder, too, about a later date because of the drawing, but that, to my mind, would leave me wondering about the spur marks. I decided it is fine for 1900/ early 20th c but am happy to be corrected.
Five mins later: I have just run upstairs, as I have a few plates from Meiji period, and checked their foot rims. All bar one hideous, printed monstrosity have the same look to them.
Of course, that doesn't confirm very much as I could be wrong about those, too. ?
Maybe Khahan could tell us when and where he got the plate, that might help.
Julia
If I saw that cobalt blue, the spur marks, the style, I would certainly think it was late 1800s, Japanese. But I am still learning, so I don’t really know. The enormous size of it, the quality of the drawing....wow. Quite a thing. The subject matter being dragons surely increases the value, also.
Todd
take it with a grain of salt
Hi all,
thank you all very much for the comments.
for your question Julia, when and where I bought it. I have bought it before almost a year from a family who has heritage it. they have told me that their father have bought it in an auction house but they don't really know when was that because he was collecting a lot.
at the time I bought it I thought its chinese, which become clear to me that its not during this year as I got more and more in the Asian art market. I'm collecting and dealing with asian arts and sell also on Catawiki.
but I find this item extremely fascinating and wanted to have some opinion about it before I decide to offer it in an Auction house.
OK interesting thoughts being expressed here
Tam and others if you carefully look at the so-called spur marks on the reverse you will notice that they are quite regular in said spacing and appear at least to my eyes to leave a clear and empty dent in the glaze. You will not see this in genuine spur marks of that period. You would expect to see some remain of clay. It is very tricky to be able to tell the difference between the two. Modern spur marks are made using aluminum. So Adrian from Malka Art has a very good eye.
How many claws can you count?
Why is it that one dragon has spikes and the other does not?
For all its appeal,there appears at least to myself that there are a number of things wrong with this charger hence my original post stands.
Mark
I see three claws, doesn’t that denote Japanese? The spur marks, I can’t see well enough to make heads or tails of them. But the regular spacing of the spurs I see on other Meiji chargers. Everything points to Japan in my eyes. If its Chinese, its deliberately made to look like it was made in Japan....always possible. If the drawings have some Chinese characteristics, I think the opposite is much more likely...made in Japan, attempting to look Chinese.
The caveat being, I am a neophyte. ?
take it with a grain of salt
The Japanese dragon has two or three claws. The Chinese have three (common ware qing) four for wealthy patrons, govt elite and lower members of the Royal household. Five only for the reigning monarch.
Way back in the late 1970's early 80's the Japanese antiquity market was the rage around the world before crashing. Even the emporer palace at its height was value d more than the entire state of California before crashing more than 95%.
It is hard to imagine in this day and age. Even Peter mentions this from time to time.
I know that looking at this item it does look Japanese and is a beatiful in appearance.
If this is really Japanese then based on the spur marks and the number thus would date early 19th century. The process was gradually faded out over the next 75yrs or so. That's to say the number of spurs decreased over that period.
There is a good article via goth site that explains how to tell the difference between old and modern spurs.
The whole thing when taken together screams something wrong if one looks at it objectively.
Mark
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the information. I am just giving a very amateur opinion. You may very well be 100% spot on.
One more thought... I have two chargers, both 47 cm..and I thought they were huge. 62cm is really, really big. Julia pointed out that the amount of spurs could be related to the unusual size. Seems reasonable.
Best, Todd
take it with a grain of salt
I think the number of claws on the dragon is not decisive - sure you see mostly three claws on Japanese pieces, but also you can find them on genuine chinese pieces; and five claw dragons on chinese porcelain mean nothing special.
there were rules in Qing china about dragons on robes , five claw for the Emperor or crown princes etc. , but they were not strictly enforced, and you find often five claw dragons on dragon robes and insignia meant for lower court officials.
This still looks like an old Japanese charger to me - back in the 1980s I don't think Chinese copyists were skilled enough to copy everything so well, including spur marks and old looking foot.
tam
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