The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.
Basic Rules For the BidAmount Asian Art Forum: Talk about whatever you want. You can even discuss and offer things that are for sale if they are authentic. Maximum image file size per post is 2 MB. Images of 700pxl x 700pxl are optimal if saved at a medium resolution. Be respectful of others and enjoy yourself. Click the YouTube link for a brief tutorial on using the forum. You can also EMBED Videos by cutting and pasting from You-Tube, Vimeo etc.
NOTE: To post an item or add a new post, click open the category title from the FORUM LIST, and CLICK the Blue ADD TOPIC button.
This is a bowl that I found at liveauctioneer. It's for sale today. I know what it is. Just curious to find out other people's opinions.
Hi,
I think it is very pretty but I think it looks to be later than Yongzheng.
I have just had a look around and found a couple of bowls that were made and marked Yongzheng but with later decoration - whatever that means exactly I am not sure.
However, I am going to go for the whole thing being later. I find that orange colour rather intimidating and the mark reminds me of that found on later copies.
Having said all that, I am prepared to be wrong but look forward to hearing about it.
Julia
As a new collector I don't know much. In examining some comps from Sothebys I come away feeling that if this is fake it is a pretty good one, like good enough to fool or confuse people like me who aren't in the know. But I also suspect that people who do know will be able to tell pretty easily one way or the other. I'm not there yet, so I will yield to the more experienced members once they weigh in. I will say that there are a few things I noticed which stood out and maybe others can address.
1. Are the twigs/stems too smooth flowing and not angular enough?
2. Is the double circle around the mark too consistent in coloration all around? Usually they fade here and there, right?
3. Is the shading on the pink flower wrong, not enough light to dark contrast, etc.
Maybe all these things are normal on authentic pieces, just things I am wondering about so as to learn either way. Looking forward to reading others thoughts.
@julia Hi Julia, thanks for viewing my post. This is a typical example of medium to high end modern copy. The famille rose flower is painted very well with good enough shading, very attractive. But the iron red flower is not shaded as well as the famille rose flower. In addition, if you pay close attention to the center of the painting, there are just too many branches and it just looks too busy and noisy, which deviates greatly from Emperor Yongzheng's personal taste in arts. Moreover, the paste on the foot rim looks clean, which is good; but the glaze on the underside looks very stiff (no orange peel at all). Furthermore, the details in the colors, especially near the tip of the leaves as well as the calyx of the flowers, indicate that this bowl is a modern copy. The mark is written meticulously well in the format of Yongzheng imperial marks so the bowl is trying very hard to make it look like an imperial piece of Emperor Yongzheng period. However, in my opinion, it is just an imperial-wannabe. Best, Jacob
@johnshoe Hi John, Thanks for your reply. First of all, the stems are not shaded well enough, but the smaller branches and twigs look okay. Second, although the underglaze cobalt blue is not supposed to fade, you are right that the color on the double circle on the underside looks too uniform. It doesn't look like it was brush painted. Third, the shading on the pink flower is actually better than the shading on the iron red (orange) flower. Best, Jacob
It is trying very hard to imitate this:
https://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2016/important-chinese-art-hk0675/lot.3669.html
But it failed in many aspects, it don't think it is a old copy but very likely brand new.
@springmeier Hi, it’s unbelievable. Despite that Sotheby’s had clearly indicated that the bowl was enameled later, that half-authentic bowl was still sold at over 3.6 million HKD in 2016! I guess that the buyer disagreed with Sotheby’s expert?... Anyway, the bowl at LiveAuctioneers was sold at $5,400 today. Plus 29% buyer’s premium and then the insured shipping, the total will be over $7k.
Thanks for the link, springmeier! Comparing these two is very educational.
@julia Hi Julia, thanks for viewing my post. This is a typical example of medium to high end modern copy. The famille rose flower is painted very well with good enough shading, very attractive. But the iron red flower is not shaded as well as the famille rose flower. In addition, if you pay close attention to the center of the painting, there are just too many branches and it just looks too busy and noisy, which deviates greatly from Emperor Yongzheng's personal taste in arts. Moreover, the paste on the foot rim looks clean, which is good; but the glaze on the underside looks very stiff (no orange peel at all). Furthermore, the details in the colors, especially near the tip of the leaves as well as the calyx of the flowers, indicate that this bowl is a modern copy. The mark is written meticulously well in the format of Yongzheng imperial marks so the bowl is trying very hard to make it look like an imperial piece of Emperor Yongzheng period. However, in my opinion, it is just an imperial-wannabe. Best, Jacob
I agree. That was the conclusion I came to, as well. I hesitated about the bowl itself, especially having seen the "later decorated" examples, but I didn't think the mark (including the circles) looked quite right.
It is undoubtedly attractive, but what a lot of money!
Hi all -
It is well known that some Ming and 'High Qing' blanks were retired with new enamelled designs in the Republic period ...
I have seen authentic mark/period Hongzhi and Zhengde period blanks with dragon/cloud and fish/water weed designs and also genuine Yongzheng and Qianlong mark/period blanks with several differing flower/rock and insects designs, all of which had Republic enamelled decoration ...
Stuart
@ming1449 This is all new to me so I find it fascinating to learn about. So, if I understand correctly they made these bowls, then added an underglaze blue mark, all of which is authentic to the period when the bowl was made,so it is mark and period in that sense, but then didn't decorate them until much later, resulting in mark and period bowls with enamels from a later time, which would make it only half authentic, or however you would describe that combo. Interesting indeed! And potentially very confusing.
Hi Ubecha -
Not so unbelievable! I do not know who bought the Sby’s HK 2016 bowl, but it is well know that pieces such as this are acquired by dealers base in China who will then ‘pursued’ a potential buyer that the auction house has made a mistake, the catalogue description is ‘incorrect’ and that the object is indeed a authentic m/p example. The auction price paid then becomes ‘a bargain for such a piece’ a ‘dealer fee/mark up’ is added, and large profit made ...
Such practices have been going on for at least the last two decades ...
Hi Johnshoe -
Attached images a two Hongzhi mark/period dishes in the Gugong, Palace Museum Beijing, with later Republic period enamelled decoration. The Gugong holds a number of such pieces within there collection ...
Such practice are recorded in historical texts/records. Last image is an eye-witness account from the great English pioneering scholar A.D. Brankston (1911-41) whilst he was in China during the 1930’s ...
Stuart
@ming1449 Hi Stuart, Thanks for sharing this information with us. I am shocked and speechless. Best, Jacob
Hi Jacob, Julia Johnshoe and all -
Just for comparison:-
This magnificent Yongzheng m/p large dish, D.50.2 cm, shows stunning detail and beautiful enamelling achieved during this period ...
I shall let you make your on comparisons to the bowl on LiveAuctioneers Jacob posted ...
Provenance:-
Christie’s London, 5th April 1976, Lot 97.
Su Zhu An Coll, Japan.
Sotheby’s HK, 31st October 1995, Lot 329.
Meiyintang Coll, last sold Sotheby’s HK, 5th October 2011, Lot 22 for HK$49,950,000 ...
Stuart
Latest Post: Erotic carved celadon? I must have lead a sheltered life, not seeing this before Our newest member: Pierre Jordaan Recent Posts Unread Posts
Thanks for visiting "The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art"
If you sell on eBay, or have a shop feel free to post images and descriptions and links.
Check back often for discussion about the latest news in the Chinese art and antique world. Also find out about the latest Asian art auctions at Sotheby's, Christie's, Bonhams and Tajans.
Auction results for: fine porcelain, ceramics, bronze, jade, textiles and scholar's objects. As well as Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese and other Asian cultures.
Thank you,
Peter Combs
Topics and categories on The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
Join the BidAmount Chinese and Asian art discussion board and forum today
The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
The art of calligraphy - and for the ancient Chinese it certainly was an art - aimed to demonstrate superior control and skill using brush and ink. Calligraphy established itself as one of the major Chinese art forms during the Han dynasty (206 BCE - 220 CE), and for two millennia after, all educated men were expected to be proficient at it.
The Museum’s collections of Asian art span nearly five millennia and encompass the cultures of China, the Himalayas, India, Japan, Korea, and Southeast Asia. In 2007, the Museum launched an initiative to create dedicated galleries for the collection, beginning with a gallery for the arts of Korea ...
Chinese art is full of symbolism, in that artists typically seek to depict some aspect of a totality of which they are intuitively aware.
China Online Museum is the finest online museum of Chinese art. It features Chinese calligraphy, painting, ceramics, bronzes, carving, and other artworks.
Chinese Ceramics & Works of Art. Overview Upcoming auctions Contacts Auction results ... Christie’s sales of Chinese ceramics and works of art showcase centuries of Chinese history. Held throughout the year in London, New York, Paris and Hong Kong, they attract a wide audience of collectors and connoisseurs vying for pieces as diverse as ...
Explore Asian Art Week. Contact the Specialist Department. Chinese Paintings ... Senior Specialist, Head of Sale. [email protected]. Tel:+1 212 641 5760. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 September 2019 at New York. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 ...
Discover an abundance of must-see art from all corners of a vast continent at Christie’s NY Asian Art Week. From contemporary classical and Chinese paintings to works with exemplary provenance from the Art Institute of Chicago, our Rockefeller Paza galleries will be full of ancient treasures and contemporary masterworks in a salute to the vibrant arts of Asia.
Sold to benefit The Art Institute of Chicago’s Asian Art Acquisition Fund, the sale features 84 lots with a focus on Ming and Qing porcelains, and offers a rare insight into the taste for collecting Chinese ceramics and works of art in the Midwest from the end of the 19th century through the 1980s. Highlights include two Wanli wucai garlic-head vases, a Qianlong mark and period, blue and ...
Specialist, Chinese Paintings, Christie's London Dr Malcolm McNeill is a Specialist in Chinese Paintings at Christie’s, based in London. He previously worked as an assistant curator of the Chinese collections and the Victoria and Albert Museum in London, as a researcher at the British Museum, and as a translator and tour guide at the National Palace Museum in Taipei.
The Christie's Education 2020 Conference: The Chinese Art Market 18 Jun 2019 Christie’s Education is delighted to announce our first international academic conference in Asia which will take place in Hong Kong from 26-27 November 2020 at the Hong Kong Convention and Exhibition Centre and will run in parallel with Christie’s Hong Kong Autumn Auctions.
The summer Chinese Art sale in Hong Kong will feature works of art from several private collections, including Qing porcelains and textile from the collection of the legendary Chinese art dealer A. W. Bahr (1877–1959), fine gilt bronze Buddhist sculptures from an old Hong Kong collection, an East Asian collection of Qing dynasty wine cups and jades, and a Japanese collection of Song ceramics ...
Sotheby's Chinese Works of Art Department holds two auctions each year in London, New York, Hong Kong and Paris.
Chinese Art - View Auction details, bid, buy and collect the various artworks at Sothebys Art Auction House.
With more than 340 Chinese works of art dating from the Neolithic to the Republic periods, highlights of this sale include a selection of Qing Imperial monochromes from the collection of Arnold and Blema Steinberg, early ceramics from the Art Institute of Chicago and Chinese porcelain and works of art from the collection of Henry Arnhold.
Results: Sotheby's Asia Week achieved $52.4 million in six strong auctions, exceeding pre-sale estimates. With 76.5% of lots sold and 60.3% of lots surpassing high estimates, the Asian art sales at Sotheby's indicate continued collector interest in the finest works of art from China, India and and the Himalayas.
Today's sale of Important Chinese Art will proceed as planned with sessions at 10 AM and 2 PM EDT. Sotheby's will be monitoring the weather conditions throughout the day and will be available to coordinate alternative bidding options should conditions make it difficult for clients to attend the auction in person.
Bonhams Chinese Art department is renowned for offering the finest works of art representing the richness and breadth of China's artistic heritage, particularly Imperial porcelain, white and spinach green jades, cloisonné and Buddhist art. Specialised international auctions are held globally, including London, Hong Kong and San Francisco.
Bonhams : Chinese Works of Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Chinese Art (US) General enquiries
Bonhams : Fine Chinese Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars Bonhams : Asian Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site.
Bonhams are international auctioneers of fine Chinese and Japanese art. We specialise in rare Imperial and Export Chinese ceramics and works of art, as well as Japanese ceramics, fine and decorative works of art from the Neolithic Period to the 20th century. View on map
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Asian Art Bonhams. Work. 22 Queen St.