The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.
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@lucky_sun123 That could be the collapsing /buckling of the porcelain during firing.
However, if that is coiling, add that to the list of things that disqualifies this vase as old.
My new Cizhou style vase with the Mao poem has coiling, a hand thrown pot, as does a green celadon that I bought in Nurnberg, Germany in 1985 thinking it was Korean, but a former regular poster convinced me it was new Chinese. It also was definitely hand thrown with the coiling. I may have to revisit it someday and have it evaluated or just continue to enjoy next to the bathtub with the little Longquan celadon covered jar. There seem to be no hard and fast rules, too many howevers and exceptions, mind boggling.
@greeno107 not sure honestly. All of this is above me and not trying to claim this is old our new. Just wanted more a less a healthy discussion of pros and cons and this was a fair crack at it. Think ill take the advice to have a expert handle it to prove without a shadow of doubt its a 20th century copy etc.
@lucky_sun123 I thought about not responding further to your post.
I think further evaluation of the piece is pointless because the outcome will not change the value of this vase to a collector.
However, let me say this:
I think you have a degree of desire to learn something from this piece, but as with every collector who has acquired a new piece, everyone tends to lean in the direction of affirmation of our hopes rather than looking straight at the facts before our eyes. It’s a habit that is hard to resist.
Why do you need to know from an expert if the piece is genuinely from the Ming or earlier? Piece of mind?
Regardless of the degree of expertise, an ‘expert’ on longquan wares (if there is actually such a person), will render an opinion, just like the folks here, but will likely charge you a fee.
And, if you don’t agree with the opinion, won’t you either feel victimized, or look for further reasons to question the expertise of your ‘expert’, or continue to seek out another who will support your beliefs?
Many many collectors do… it’s not unusual.
The only ‘truth’ you’ll uncover is that until earn the knowledge for yourself, uncertainty will haunt you with every acquisition you make.
And, if the expert agrees that it is period made, then what? Because they affirmed your hopes, are they more qualified than the one who called your vase a fake?
Regardless, you are left with two choices:
Keep it or sell it.
If you plan to keep it…. Why spend money and risk disappointment when you can just put it on a nice stand, and enjoy it as a Ming relic from a prominent family. Who’s to question it? Do you often have Ming porcelain experts to your home, and fear embarrassment?
If you plan to sell it, no matter the evidence you produce (yes, even a laboratory TL test), the market will decide for themselves if they feel your piece is genuine, and what it is worth.
So again, there’s no need to risk further financial cost nor the risk of disappointment.
If you find beauty in your slanted vase, rest easy that at a few people in this forum share your feelings. And, if it helps, I too would have spent $45 on that vase… so, fear not the reaper.
But please remember that it was never my intention to enter into an evaluation of your vase’s authenticity, because from the start, I felt that the defect and overall poor appearance effectively makes the vase of negligible collector’s value, and most certainly a fake.
If you don’t have plans to endeavor into collecting Asian art, then you have nothing to worry about. Enjoy your vase!
But if you do wish to dip your toe into collecting Asian antiques, you should consider starting with pieces that lack defects that will almost always guarantee no collector’s value.
Best of luck with your future endeavors!
I would have to strongly disagree with asking an expert for an opinion. Why I say this is we all pay tuition. I don’t ask experts because I want confirmation my item is authentic I ask because I’m looking for clues and information to have the best opportunity in finding lost treasures other opinions life testaments and collection stories with providence help refine your scope of knowledge. Experts are not always right it’s just clues and information. But with expert opinions books and research museums visits auction house visits you get a better chance at finding lost treasures. We are making an opinion from a small phone screen it’s not the same as handing the item and what you are seeing. Monochrome is a very difficult field I would suggest visiting museums with known examples and to continue your research looking for a comparable.
I did find a Cong on eBay it’s in the same pattern but nothing like yours just remember all fakes came from somewhere it was copied from something.
@lotusblack I agree there is value in just having your curiosity satisfied by someone that knows more than you. 🤔
I agree there is value in just having your curiosity satisfied
Fair enough…. Spend $800 on TL test and know with certainty if you feel knowing has value. Oh!? You didn’t mean it had that much value? 😉
The opinions of knowledgeable people have already been offered, and apparently, curiosity has not been satisfied.
What I think is the unspoken part of this conversation is the belief that there is nobody in this group that is qualified to give an accurate assessment of a Ming longquan vase. Perhaps.
If there is a better method of authenticating this piece, please share - I’m all ears.
Experts are not always right it’s just clues and information.
Science isn’t always right.
Doctors make mistakes, so medicine is not the solution to every health issue.
Everything is opinion, and all opinions are equal.
Why stop there?
Perhaps we all live in a Matrix of alternate universes where our own realities are the only truth that matters.
Good luck with that!
Appreciate all the wonderful comments and discussions. You all have been very helpful and glad there is a place like this to bounce around ideas and knowledge!!
@greeno107 your a fierce warrior and honestly I respect that 🙂 Your a hard pill to take down, but happy to do so for the better of my well being 🙂
There is no reason why someone lacking knowledge should trust one or twenty opinions completely and halt further enquiry. The origin of the vase is still an enigma. There are also other sources of old Longquan style celadons that are not Chinese in origin.
@greeno107 I was only talking about the 12.00 request to have Peter's opinion being money well spent. I understood the request has already been made and I look forward to the response. I never said it was Ming, frankly I'm rather befuddled by your respone.
@sharonp Dont be befuddled. The $12 fee would be well worth paying for another opinion based upon photos. What I was directing my ire at was the thought of hiring an 'expert' appraiser, or lab testing (as I referenced), or walking into a major auction house with the vase - you got caught in the cross-fire. Sorry.
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