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I put a bid on this what I believe to be 18th century famille rose Qainlong Private orders jardiniere. It looked authentic I just couldn’t bid any higher. Do you think it was authentic or a fake?
The high lid shape looks Yongzheng, but my answer is that I am not sure. The black flowers are interesting. I am not sure about that being a Qianlong base either, but I don't have a lot of Chinese tureen experience, certainly not of this shape.
If it is a private order it would probably be part of a dinner service, maybe there are some plates around that might help you be certain?
I was bidding on a tureen yesterday, which may have been pulled at the last minute. When I saw your title, I thought you meant was the auction legit and wondered if it was the same one - it wasn't.
How big is this, what did it sell for?
@julia it was a large size one. It sold for $1675 usd. Which if it was authentic was probably a fare price.
My goodness, that is big! The ones I have come across are roughly 8 inches long.
I let this one simmer before commenting since I was unsure. I have to say, I am not convinced by this tureen. I've seen some remarkable reproductions of special order Chinese export porcelain ("CEP") recently, and, although excellently rendered when viewing individual elements in isolation, if you pull back, they don't look fit quite right. I am getting that sense with this one, so I think you did well to leave it...
It's very confusing. It's not clobbered, as it is certainly designed with the overglaze decorations in mind. It has a nice Nanking border, which is typically blue and white, but this has polychrome enamels. Further confusion with the cash symbol border on the bottom, something not typically seen in combination with the Nanking border. Also to add to that all, the imperial style mark (which is very similar to marks 1277-1279 on Davison's book except for the bottom right character), a seemingly artificially dirtied base and rim, and the very clean white porcelain with few if any blemishes typical of 18th-century CEP, I think it is fake.
I also don't think the end marketplace price determines authenticity with CEP. I've seen some special order CEP style pieces shipping from China, while still achieving almost authentic price results.
I may be rambling, but these are just my thoughts.
John
@bartholin I have doubts as well, and I think you're probably right in your assessment. It seems to be a little off. Out of curiosity, has anyone seen an authentic one in that huge size and particular shape combination? John
Although I have doubts, I have seen the shape, hence my comments about the lid. I wasn't sure the knop was right though, I have only seen that on a Jiaqing tureen - that possible mixture of styles gave me some doubts, too. Not having handles though, is fine. I spent a while looking this morning and then ran out of time to say a great deal.
Mainly I didn't like the base or the black flowers, I found the blue shade a bit disturbing especially the cash border and as you can tell, I was surprised at the size: it could be that which drove the price?
I’m on the fence with this pot. To fake a pot so large is non productive. The shape can be found. The mark does have a trait of 18th century hall mark that I have personally seen. I think the white looks ok. My issue is the overall pattern of the pot. A hall mark is meant for domestic not export. But the overall design is European. But at the end of the day if it was authentic it would have brought way more money in my opinion.
I felt a bit stupid so I waited for others to speak up first. But the very first thing I noticed was the blue cash border and to me it looked printed.
Also as said by others there seems to be a mix of styles and that black rim is suspicious too.
Birgit
I have notice that pieces on eBay are commanding so high bids. Some items way more than I could expect. This little bird feeder brought $437 it was very nice but one loop was broken and it had two hairline cracks. Seem high for damaged item. But the work was very good.
@lotusblack I think there are global economic forces at play that are going to continue to push up prices for Asian antiques. What you are noticing is part of that dynamic as it trickles down through all the levels. It would not surprise me one bit to see the prices of every quality Chinese antique double in price over the next 3-5 years. Of course, that's just my opinion and speculation, and I could be wrong, so only time will tell.
@johnshoe That has been the problem with speculation throughout history, whether it was tulips, Florida land or Japanese ceramics.
@sharonp True, but it's also fun to do! And in the end, isn't almost everything in life a roll of the dice anyway? Que the scene of the crowd gathered around a craps table: "come on snake eyes!"
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Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
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