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Hello, I wanted to know is there a definitive way of authenticating Chinese Bronzes. I understand that a lot of it comes from having a trained eye. Are there certain signs pertaining to the patina that's a dead give away on being authentic or reproduction? Do old bronze develop darkened brown spots on them?
Any info greatly appreciated
I know patina is being faked and as you no doubt have heard Peter mention before in his videos, some people like to shine the dickens out of authentic pieces. We have members who are knowledgeable on bronze (I am not one of them) but I have read what they have said tjat you really need to develope a sense for them by seeing and holding. Perhaps they will be along. Sharon
I have been spending the last few days looking at a lot of bronzes on line (see my recent post in the "Help Identify This" section: Chinese Bronze Censer... to understand why) and I've noticed the fakes tend to have poor quality details (thick lines, forms more suggested than refined) and the patina is often spotted with turquoise corrosion. Plus, the patina seems to be too crusty and exaggerated. Of course., there are ranges of fakes from cheap & lazy to pretty good. All the Ebay stuff from China is fake and a good way to get oriented on what to avoid.
Search Christies web site to see examples of good ones.
There's also the issue of ancient vs reproduction; there are a lot of pretty good examples from the 19th century that range in quality and are pretty affordable, most having a Xuande mark of some kind. The ones from the 18th are of higher quality and often have a theatrical aspect.
I am inexperienced and never handled Chinese bronzes before so this is all new to me. My gamble in buying the censer was based on my really liking the look of it and I didn't pay too much. Plus, even if it's fake or not worth much, I will still enjoy it and learn about bronzes. I ordered a couple of books on Chinese bronzes as well. Always good to expand my repertoire, as long as I don't bankrupt myself in the process!
Do you have your sights on one?
There is a high misunderstanding with bronze even experts are wrong. The only bronze that experts feel safe with are commons but nothing else. I have had several say Japanese when in fact it’s Chinese and the other way around. Due to both made bronze for each others markets. Chinese made bronze for the Japanese markets but most experts just say its Japanese both origins were interweaved and both used each others style it really came down to economics. But there were also pieces used for ceremonies and these are very misunderstood because in wedding’s for example local regions had different views and cultures so local metal workers created vessels just for that taste. So experts like to have it both ways listing it as Chinese or Japanese Sotheby’s and Christie’s both do this why you may ask it’s simple they just don’t know who or when because odd balls show up all the time. I recently had a bronze looked at by an expert he said 20th century Japanese with Chinese writing. And I had another expert actually read the writing and did a lot of research and said it was Ming period the writing was an ingredient used during the early Yuan to Ming period for fertility in weddings this tradition was not used in Japan nor the later periods. So no in my opinion there is no smoking gun way to authenticate bronze unless you find a common.
I agree with Brian, this area is a tricky one and experts disagree sometimes. I recently had two experts check out an unusual bronze piece I have and one said it was clearly older and probably 16-18th c but the other dismissed it as 20th C. Both people are very knowledgeable about Asian antiques in general, but they gave very different assessments.
To tell a story as well...
I just had a bronze statue Age-Tested because several experts told me it was 19th Century. But I was stubborn in my own assasement and payed the money to be sure... It's 12th Century, as I suggested, when presenting the bronze.
Just to say, as @lotusblack & @johnshoe said... Experts are also just people 😂
with Best Regards...
Carsten
I had my bronze statue tested at 'Labor Kotalla' in Germany. But you can not test every bronze in the same way. I was lucky to be able to use the cheapest way to test a bronze. When there is still casting sand within the hollow cast of a statue, this sand can be TL-tested. The bronze itself can only be tested with an analyses of it's mix of metals, which then is compared to a database of known examples. The TL-Test cost €350...
with Best Regards...
Carsten
@steve for now I am just enjoying the piece. If I ever want to sell it I will get some more expert opinions first. I'm fairly certain it's pretty old. I have the advantage of seeing and handling it in person while the others had to assess via pictures.
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Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
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A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
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