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Hi all,
Just want to ask y'alls opinions on this cup and saucer, the latest to fool me. It was BIN on eBay with one photo of the front, extremely blurry, so all I saw was a vague armorial that looked like the royal arms of England, although now I think its probably something else, a gilt spearhead border, and no photos of the bottom. Figured it was worth a gamble, but it's not Chinese export. Does anyone have any idea what else it might be?
John
Is that a blue ring next to interior rim or just a shadow from the rim, coronation remembrance? It is the coat of arms for England, is it old enough to be for Victoria or Edward VII? It would be interesting if it was one of the pieces made for the coronaton that was a no go, Edward VIII.
It is a blue ring, it's where the glaze really pooled during firing. It pooled so much that you can see the actual tint of the transparent glaze. It's weird because the saucer has rim chips that remind me of 18th c. Chinese porcelain, but that's where the similarities end.
Also, I have no idea on the heraldry! It looks like it was supposed to be the royal arms of England, or some other nobility, but the decorator gave up halfway through. Seems they only really got as far as the background color for each quarter, then stopped, so it's impossible to tell which specifically.
@bartholin Well they got Honi Soit qui mal y pense right, evil to him who evil thinks and Dieu et mon droit. God is my right, as far as I know no one entitled to it but the royal house. You certainly have come across some interesting things. I think my favorites were the ones from the fellow with the VOC .
Oh, interesting! I didn't know that. That's fun!
I wonder what's the story behind this little cup. Maybe you're right and it's commemorating a coronation. It's kind of fun that it's mimicking Chinese export with the gilt spearhead border, too, but I wonder why if it were commemorative of an English coronation.
The VOC ones are definitely in my top 5 favorites. 😊 I think they're aesthetically interesting, with an even more interesting history that I can distantly relate to.
I would say it is is similar to the coat of arms but there are a few things wrong eg it looks like droit is spelt incorrectly.. Was it described as being of a particular age?
Yes, there are quite a few errors on the motto and heraldry, which is something I would've associated more with a Chinese origin, but I have no idea!
It was described as 18/19th c., but I am against returns even if they've been misrepresented in some way because I knowingly took the chance. In hindsight, I should have known it wasn't Chinese, but here is the listing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/115250570361
I'm going to blame my clouded judgment on this one. I lost it a little over a week before the cup popped up on eBay, so I took the chance when I saw it:
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/121907340_18thc-chinese-export-blue-and-white-bowl
I would associate the errors with Chinese, too. Almost certainly it isn't french! I find a few things a bit odd: the gold bands around the base of the cup and the centre of the saucer; the look of the base of the cup; the pooling of the glaze. I am not sure what to make of it, maybe Sharon is correct and it is 20th c. Still, the photos were rubbish so I can see your temptation.
I like the other one much better.
I'm unsure, too. At least it serves as a reminder to stop taking unlikely chances based on poor photos. Poor photos are intentional!
The bowl I think might've been unrecorded, but I don't have all the British armorial books. I thought it would go under the radar, since it didn't even have the right keywords, but it skyrocketed within the first 30 seconds. I think it bears the arms of George IV when he was Prince of Wales (1763-1801).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_IV
@bartholin Yes, I agree we should stop taking unlikely chances based on poor photos (said as I eagerly await my most recent purchase of exactly that which will hopefully arrive later today!) I just can't help myself...because...what if it is something? The struggle is real. John
@johnshoe Rehab for porcelain addicts, plastic restaurant ware only in dining hall.
@bartholin Another thought, was the royal crest used on embassy ware, goodness, it could have been ordered up from many places. If George IV, would be nice, maybe Beau Brummel sipped his tea from it. Not a disaster, more good stories.
@bartholin Scratch that idea, got exactly nowhere on Google, suppose they would have most likely featured British produced wares at an embassy.
@johnshoe I have a routine eye exam to attend this afternoon, I will stop at a charity shop on the way home. The pulse begins to race.
@sharonp hey, for under $5 it's hard to go wrong, and I mean, if it's on the way....
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