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The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art

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Is this carved cinnebarlacquer box Chinese or Japanese?

 
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Topic starter 23/10/2021 8:09 am  

Looks Chinese Ming to me but I'm not sure.

lacquer1
lacquer2
lacquer3
lacquer4

   
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Short Dong
 Short Dong
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23/10/2021 8:58 am  

looks beautiful


   
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Adams Asian Art
 Adams Asian Art
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Mark Adams
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23/10/2021 11:19 am  

Very nice example. Looks ming period. 

Mark 


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
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23/10/2021 8:20 pm  

This is a nice 19th c. Japanese cinnabar box, mimicking the Ming style.  It is moulded, not carved, and this manner of chrysanthemum flowers are not Chinese in style (they look like Japanese mille de fleur).

Compare...

ming cinnabar

   
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Topic starter 24/10/2021 8:01 am  

That's a detail picture of a Chinese Ming lacquer box you posted there I can tell. It's this one.

chinesebox

 But I'm nort sure the box I posted is cast and I'm not sure it's Japanese either even though you say so. I would think it's lacquered wood. The wood has benn carved and the lacquered then the details are added. I'll need to check.

box

 

 


   
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Topic starter 24/10/2021 8:14 am  

Here's another piece of lacquer available from the source. Again region of origin is not specified in the description.

Tray 1
Tray 2
Tray 3

 


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
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24/10/2021 8:33 am  

@avatar The tray is also Japanese.  The look is quite different from Chinese cinnabar landscapes.

5EA27CE2 AFE6 41AD B4F2 4D4B42A5ACC9

   
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Topic starter 24/10/2021 9:24 am  

I see. And here is yet another one. Just for the fun of it ...

redbox 1
redbox 2
redbox 3

 


   
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Greeno107
 Greeno107
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24/10/2021 10:05 am  

@avatar I think Japanese as well.

Do you mind me asking how the seller is representing these pieces?

The fancy photography makes me think it’s a professional gallery.


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
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24/10/2021 11:35 am  

@greeno107 I’m confused is it molded lacquer like a stamp? Is it not layered like Chinese cinnabar? 


   
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Greeno107
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24/10/2021 12:00 pm  

@lotusblack I’m going to see if I can find an article, but moulded in one layer, perhaps with some details added (carved) as needed.


   
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Brian Crowe
 Brian Crowe
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24/10/2021 12:08 pm  

@greeno107 I have another question is Chinese layered carved cinnabar still being produced today? Or are they all imitations? Thanks


   
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Topic starter 24/10/2021 1:04 pm  

They are just described as lacquer without region of origin specified. It's a prof gallery in Japan and they probably use prof photographers. The Japanese are very good with electronics you know and also make very niv´ce cameras. They are not very good at English either. Otherwise they would have a larger share of the hardware and software market. But it' s a gallery that have a lot of nice material available that sometimes can be acquired for very nice prices. I had luck to buy a USD50k Liangzhu jade bead for just a few hundred a while ago. Only a very small amount the material is fake. But some is wrongfully described and/or dated. The 'bird-feeder' with the copper-red dragon I posted in a seperate thread  is from the same gallery.  I'll see if I can poste some more pieces from them later.

This post was modified 4 years ago by avatar

   
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Greeno107
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24/10/2021 1:29 pm  

@avatar The objects you describe are frequently faked, so be careful.  The Japanese market is FULL FULL FULL FULL FULL of FAKES!

Unlike the American antique market, which for the most part is unfamiliar with Chinese and other Asian antiques....the Japanese market has an astonishing number of genuine experts.  Antiques in Japan are a far more serious and professional industry than other parts of the world, especially the USA, so 'mistakes' are few and far between.

 


   
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Greeno107
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24/10/2021 1:34 pm  

@lotusblack It's not quite the same material, but I think so, but far less layers.  I think I gave this example before, but just a reminder...

A Yuan to Ming period piece might have 100 layers in a 1 cm thickness..... they applied each layer individually, allowed it to cure, then added another layer.  Extremely time consuming, and I've read that a year or more could pass before the object was ready to be carved.

A Qing piece might have 25-75 layers for a 1 cm thickness.

A Republic piece might have 10-20 layers...

A modern piece... probably 5-10??? I guess it really depends on the artist who made it and how elaborate a piece it is.


   
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