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@jjytlee here are the photos requested and more of the webbing with pins. I put a office chair in for size comparison. I think they are larger than picture make them to be. They measure 38 height by 25 width in inches.
This is really turning into a great thread, and it's nice that Michael has been able to contribute his expertise.
One of the questions raised by Michael is addressed by your side view, which shows that the chairs sit gracefully tall.
Also, a note on the caning: assuming that your chairs are, say, 200 years old, I believe the expectation would have been that the caning would have been repaired/replaced at least a couple of times over that period, so there's no reason to expect that the cane mat would necessarily be original.
Although not made of the coveted zitan or huanghuali, your chairs definitely belong within the tradition of "classical" Chinese furniture. In the late Qing, the taste was for dark, ornate and heavily carved furniture, but even the imperial-quality pieces lack the vitality that can be seen in your chairs.
I have a pair of beloved elm horseshoe-back chairs, acquired almost 40 years ago for, umm, a bit more than $200. I will try to post pictures, but it may be awhile before I can get around to it.
Regards,
John
@lotusblack You had good instincts to buy these. Way to go and let us know as you learn more.
@johnshoe I’m going to get Peter opinion and go from there. Once I can figure out what they are I will figure out if my home is right setting. I already have a stone red wood chair but I my admit these are much more attractive. John Lee is correct there is a elegance to the pair that gives them a classical appeal.
@lotusblack I found you! I thought I responded, but it looks like I responded to a different post.
Okay, so let me start that Michael seems to have provided you with a good assessment of the wood of the chair, but while the style appears to be Qing, I think it is a later copy.
The matting is not a relyable way to date furniture because these mats were replaced periodically. That said, your photo of the how the mat is fastened shows the underwood of the seat which is always very tellng of the true age of furniture.
To my eyes, and based on the two photos ofbthe underside you posted, the wood looks deliberatley stained to look dark. Sometimes underside surfaces were painted, lacquered or stained to help preserve the wood, but the color seems oddly similar to the color of the knots....like someone stained it after putting the matting on...not sure that's how it would be done.
How about a few photos of the underside of the feet and foot rest (top)?
This is one of the most reliable ways of dating chairs. If they were used fir 200 years or more, then the feet will show all sorts of wear due to slidding across floors and water stains from mopping/cleaning done around the chair. The foot rests will show uneven slopping wear from shoes rubbing on them.
Regardless, you bought right as these chairs generally sell $600-800 a pair in the decorative market, only slightly less than genuine Qing elm chairs...so not much difference from a financial standpoint.
Hope this helps a little.
@greeno107 thanks for the info I will look at the feet. As for underside it was definitely painted with some type of lacquer the webbed roping is also hard from a substance.
@greeno107 here are pictures of the feet and foot rest. There is a repair to the back side foot rest.
@lotusblack Okay, so there is some wear, but not enough for me to be dating these to Qing....perhaps early to mid 20th c.
Now wear varies, so it's a subjective assessment that another person may not put as much importance on as I do.
Compare to this foot rest and feet of a stained elm chair that Christie's described as 18th / 19th c. The wear is quite distict because elm is soft and wears rather quickly. Given the seat is wood rather than woven, I'm inclined to date to 19th c.
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