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Why do some people claim that antique porcelain can not be TL tested when several reputable labs such as Oxford claim they can TL-test porcelain? Gotheborg also write on their site that "A TL-test could be made on all kinds of fired pottery such as earthenware, stoneware as well as true porcelain". Is this untrue?
Are there other tests available to authenticate antique ceramics or to back up TL-testing.
What other labs besides Oxford can make TL-tests? Are there cheaper alternative that are still reliable?
I did an online search a found a small handfull of labs carrying out TL-testing besides Oxford.
Antique Authecitation in Hong Kong (does not specify if they test porcelain)
http://www.antiqueauthentication.com/
Laboratory kortella (make tests of porcelain)
https://www.kotalla.de/?lang=en
Artemis Testing lab in the US (make tests of porcelain)
And then there are Daybreak archaemetric also in the US (this lab specifies that "Porcelains, being nearly vitrified, are a special case requiring a fairly large solid core sample, and TL dating of intact objects is not recommended because of the damage caused by sampling" and they also mention another method of dating/autheticating ceramics called OSL--optical stimulated luminescence)
Dear Corey,
I have shown, or much better, documented you that what said by Oxford Authentication must be “read within the lines”. They are simply not clear. Only in few cases porcelain can be TL tested. They too say that, just not clearly in the main page. This is known to anyone.
I heard about some bad experience with Kotalla, but just heard, I can’t guarantee.
If I need a TL test, I relay on Arcadia in Milan. Competent, reliable, managed by an Authority in the field, at half price in respect to Oxford, and very collaborative, unlike Oxford. Besides that, they provide the graph of the test, which is expect for whatever test being commissioned. It is unacceptable that Oxford doesn’t do that.
There are no other tests for dating ceramics. Once in awhile other tests are proposed and/or under study, but up to now nothing available.
Note that TL too is not totally reliable. In some cases it doesn’t work even on genuine items, depending from the composition of the clay, and results can be faked too, by artificially irradiating the piece.
Giovanni
A Universiy in Hongkong can do it t00, for porcelain for sure.
I heard that TL testing is not absolutely reliable since around 2000 or ..., maybe. I'm not sure.
It's nothing wrong with this testing method, it's about the piece itself. Because many people repair their piece using different methods (e.g. repeat firing) and that affects the results.
Well, that's my state of knowledge for now.
www.wyssemaria-art.com
[email protected]
Dear Xin,
with absolute certainty, not all porcelain can be TL tested. To be precise, only in few cases it can be done.
All the scientific literature about TL testing say that.
If you note, only few of TL test description/notes are talking about porcelain. All them are generally talking about ceramic pottery, ands the reasons are two, being them the fact that only in rare cases porcelain can be tested, and the fact that TL tested is not recommended for items of the Qing dynasty, during the top of porcelain production, because the large tolerance of the authentication window.
Said that, if Oxford Authentication releases a certificate authenticating a Republic period porcelain, that it totally ridiculous, for them and for the Auction house that blind believe them without making the proper checks.
If somebody do not believe that, he is kindly invited to ask to other serious Labs. It is not matter of bigger competence, there are no secrets there, the principle is well known.
Giovanni
BTW about pieces of 2000 years or so, that's right.
Oxford Authentication too says (only in the FAQ page, no comments...) that the tolerance is +/- 20%, which means, for a 1500 years old piece, a 600 years window. That is the reason because generally the TL test is recommended for pre-Ming pieces.
By firing again the piece the test is no more valid because the "TL watch" goes back to zero.
Giovanni
Dear Xin,
with absolute certainty, not all porcelain can be TL tested. To be precise, only in few cases it can be done.
All the scientific literature about TL testing say that.
If you note, only few of TL test description/notes are talking about porcelain. All them are generally talking about ceramic pottery, ands the reasons are two, being them the fact that only in rare cases porcelain can be tested, and the fact that TL tested is not recommended for items of the Qing dynasty, during the top of porcelain production, because the large tolerance of the authentication window.
Said that, if Oxford Authentication releases a certificate authenticating a Republic period porcelain, that it totally ridiculous, for them and for the Auction house that blind believe them without making the proper checks.
If somebody do not believe that, he is kindly invited to ask to other serious Labs. It is not matter of bigger competence, there are no secrets there, the principle is well known.
Giovanni
Dear Giovanni,
Thank you for this valuable information. I appreciate that. Yes, most of tested wares are before Jin and Yuan dynasty. After that period the test doesn't make sense. Most experts prefer using their eyes then this kind of test. Me too.
Xin
www.wyssemaria-art.com
[email protected]
Older thread I know but I’ll throw my two cents in. I use Artemis. The testing method Is standardized and the guys are always available to answer question. Arya’s is very available for questions as well. As far as Kotella, no personal experience but, just look at who they test for. You’ll see a supposed legit piece with a Kotella certificate being sold right by an obvious fake. Just search though Tracadero for numerous examples. That alone makes me stay away from them.
I think it was around 2000 that I started to hear rumors that fakers had started passing their Tang wares through medical x-ray machines. By trail and error, they found how many passes were required to push the TL dating back to the Tang period. Just another procedure to add to their faker’s toolbox. This is in addition to inserting period Tang scraps into ‘restored’ mostly new figures. Or they provided samples from genuine fragments that are totally divorced from the fake item to be tested. Or just make up fake documentation.
I started to shift my collecting focus elsewhere. If I was serious about a Tang object, then I looked for verifiable provenance or depended on close inspection by reputable dealers.
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