The Chinese and Asian Art Forum. For Fans, Collectors and Dealers.
Basic Rules For the BidAmount Asian Art Forum: Talk about whatever you want. You can even discuss and offer things that are for sale if they are authentic. Maximum image file size per post is 2 MB. Images of 700pxl x 700pxl are optimal if saved at a medium resolution. Be respectful of others and enjoy yourself. Click the YouTube link for a brief tutorial on using the forum. You can also EMBED Videos by cutting and pasting from You-Tube, Vimeo etc.
NOTE: To post an item or add a new post, click open the category title from the FORUM LIST, and CLICK the Blue ADD TOPIC button.
Why do some people claim that antique porcelain can not be TL tested when several reputable labs such as Oxford claim they can TL-test porcelain? Gotheborg also write on their site that "A TL-test could be made on all kinds of fired pottery such as earthenware, stoneware as well as true porcelain". Is this untrue?
Are there other tests available to authenticate antique ceramics or to back up TL-testing.
What other labs besides Oxford can make TL-tests? Are there cheaper alternative that are still reliable?
I did an online search a found a small handfull of labs carrying out TL-testing besides Oxford.
Antique Authecitation in Hong Kong (does not specify if they test porcelain)
http://www.antiqueauthentication.com/
Laboratory kortella (make tests of porcelain)
https://www.kotalla.de/?lang=en
Artemis Testing lab in the US (make tests of porcelain)
And then there are Daybreak archaemetric also in the US (this lab specifies that "Porcelains, being nearly vitrified, are a special case requiring a fairly large solid core sample, and TL dating of intact objects is not recommended because of the damage caused by sampling" and they also mention another method of dating/autheticating ceramics called OSL--optical stimulated luminescence)
Dear Corey,
I have shown, or much better, documented you that what said by Oxford Authentication must be “read within the lines”. They are simply not clear. Only in few cases porcelain can be TL tested. They too say that, just not clearly in the main page. This is known to anyone.
I heard about some bad experience with Kotalla, but just heard, I can’t guarantee.
If I need a TL test, I relay on Arcadia in Milan. Competent, reliable, managed by an Authority in the field, at half price in respect to Oxford, and very collaborative, unlike Oxford. Besides that, they provide the graph of the test, which is expect for whatever test being commissioned. It is unacceptable that Oxford doesn’t do that.
There are no other tests for dating ceramics. Once in awhile other tests are proposed and/or under study, but up to now nothing available.
Note that TL too is not totally reliable. In some cases it doesn’t work even on genuine items, depending from the composition of the clay, and results can be faked too, by artificially irradiating the piece.
Giovanni
A Universiy in Hongkong can do it t00, for porcelain for sure.
I heard that TL testing is not absolutely reliable since around 2000 or ..., maybe. I'm not sure.
It's nothing wrong with this testing method, it's about the piece itself. Because many people repair their piece using different methods (e.g. repeat firing) and that affects the results.
Well, that's my state of knowledge for now.
www.wyssemaria-art.com
[email protected]
Dear Xin,
with absolute certainty, not all porcelain can be TL tested. To be precise, only in few cases it can be done.
All the scientific literature about TL testing say that.
If you note, only few of TL test description/notes are talking about porcelain. All them are generally talking about ceramic pottery, ands the reasons are two, being them the fact that only in rare cases porcelain can be tested, and the fact that TL tested is not recommended for items of the Qing dynasty, during the top of porcelain production, because the large tolerance of the authentication window.
Said that, if Oxford Authentication releases a certificate authenticating a Republic period porcelain, that it totally ridiculous, for them and for the Auction house that blind believe them without making the proper checks.
If somebody do not believe that, he is kindly invited to ask to other serious Labs. It is not matter of bigger competence, there are no secrets there, the principle is well known.
Giovanni
BTW about pieces of 2000 years or so, that's right.
Oxford Authentication too says (only in the FAQ page, no comments...) that the tolerance is +/- 20%, which means, for a 1500 years old piece, a 600 years window. That is the reason because generally the TL test is recommended for pre-Ming pieces.
By firing again the piece the test is no more valid because the "TL watch" goes back to zero.
Giovanni
Dear Xin,
with absolute certainty, not all porcelain can be TL tested. To be precise, only in few cases it can be done.
All the scientific literature about TL testing say that.
If you note, only few of TL test description/notes are talking about porcelain. All them are generally talking about ceramic pottery, ands the reasons are two, being them the fact that only in rare cases porcelain can be tested, and the fact that TL tested is not recommended for items of the Qing dynasty, during the top of porcelain production, because the large tolerance of the authentication window.
Said that, if Oxford Authentication releases a certificate authenticating a Republic period porcelain, that it totally ridiculous, for them and for the Auction house that blind believe them without making the proper checks.
If somebody do not believe that, he is kindly invited to ask to other serious Labs. It is not matter of bigger competence, there are no secrets there, the principle is well known.
Giovanni
Dear Giovanni,
Thank you for this valuable information. I appreciate that. Yes, most of tested wares are before Jin and Yuan dynasty. After that period the test doesn't make sense. Most experts prefer using their eyes then this kind of test. Me too.
Xin
www.wyssemaria-art.com
[email protected]
Older thread I know but I’ll throw my two cents in. I use Artemis. The testing method Is standardized and the guys are always available to answer question. Arya’s is very available for questions as well. As far as Kotella, no personal experience but, just look at who they test for. You’ll see a supposed legit piece with a Kotella certificate being sold right by an obvious fake. Just search though Tracadero for numerous examples. That alone makes me stay away from them.
I think it was around 2000 that I started to hear rumors that fakers had started passing their Tang wares through medical x-ray machines. By trail and error, they found how many passes were required to push the TL dating back to the Tang period. Just another procedure to add to their faker’s toolbox. This is in addition to inserting period Tang scraps into ‘restored’ mostly new figures. Or they provided samples from genuine fragments that are totally divorced from the fake item to be tested. Or just make up fake documentation.
I started to shift my collecting focus elsewhere. If I was serious about a Tang object, then I looked for verifiable provenance or depended on close inspection by reputable dealers.
Latest Post: Ebay buyer demans Taxfraud what should i do Our newest member: Povilas Mickevicius Recent Posts Unread Posts
Thanks for visiting "The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art"
If you sell on eBay, or have a shop feel free to post images and descriptions and links.
Check back often for discussion about the latest news in the Chinese art and antique world. Also find out about the latest Asian art auctions at Sotheby's, Christie's, Bonhams and Tajans.
Auction results for: fine porcelain, ceramics, bronze, jade, textiles and scholar's objects. As well as Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese and other Asian cultures.
Thank you,
Peter Combs
Topics and categories on The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
Kangxi vases, Kangxi dishes and chargers, Kangxi ritual pieces, Kangxi scholar's objects, Qianlong famille rose, Qianlong enamels, Qianlong period paintings, Qianlong Emporer's court, Fine porcelain of the Yongzheng period. Chinese imperial art, Ming porcelain including Jiajing, Wanli, Xuande, Chenghua as well as Ming jades and bronzes.
Join the BidAmount Chinese and Asian art discussion board and forum today
The BidAmount Asian Art Forum | Chinese Art
A free Asian art discussion board and Asian art message board for dealers and collectors of art and antiques from China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Asia. Linked to all of the BidAmount Asian art reference areas, with videos from plcombs Asian Art and Bidamount on YouTube. Sign up also for the weekly BidAmount newsletter and catalogs of active eBay listing of Chinese porcelain, bronze, jades, robes, and paintings.
The art of calligraphy - and for the ancient Chinese it certainly was an art - aimed to demonstrate superior control and skill using brush and ink. Calligraphy established itself as one of the major Chinese art forms during the Han dynasty (206 BCE - 220 CE), and for two millennia after, all educated men were expected to be proficient at it.
The Museum’s collections of Asian art span nearly five millennia and encompass the cultures of China, the Himalayas, India, Japan, Korea, and Southeast Asia. In 2007, the Museum launched an initiative to create dedicated galleries for the collection, beginning with a gallery for the arts of Korea ...
Chinese art is full of symbolism, in that artists typically seek to depict some aspect of a totality of which they are intuitively aware.
China Online Museum is the finest online museum of Chinese art. It features Chinese calligraphy, painting, ceramics, bronzes, carving, and other artworks.
Chinese Ceramics & Works of Art. Overview Upcoming auctions Contacts Auction results ... Christie’s sales of Chinese ceramics and works of art showcase centuries of Chinese history. Held throughout the year in London, New York, Paris and Hong Kong, they attract a wide audience of collectors and connoisseurs vying for pieces as diverse as ...
Explore Asian Art Week. Contact the Specialist Department. Chinese Paintings ... Senior Specialist, Head of Sale. [email protected]. Tel:+1 212 641 5760. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 September 2019 at New York. Bid in-person or online for the upcoming auction:Fine Chinese Paintings on 10 ...
Discover an abundance of must-see art from all corners of a vast continent at Christie’s NY Asian Art Week. From contemporary classical and Chinese paintings to works with exemplary provenance from the Art Institute of Chicago, our Rockefeller Paza galleries will be full of ancient treasures and contemporary masterworks in a salute to the vibrant arts of Asia.
Sold to benefit The Art Institute of Chicago’s Asian Art Acquisition Fund, the sale features 84 lots with a focus on Ming and Qing porcelains, and offers a rare insight into the taste for collecting Chinese ceramics and works of art in the Midwest from the end of the 19th century through the 1980s. Highlights include two Wanli wucai garlic-head vases, a Qianlong mark and period, blue and ...
Specialist, Chinese Paintings, Christie's London Dr Malcolm McNeill is a Specialist in Chinese Paintings at Christie’s, based in London. He previously worked as an assistant curator of the Chinese collections and the Victoria and Albert Museum in London, as a researcher at the British Museum, and as a translator and tour guide at the National Palace Museum in Taipei.
The Christie's Education 2020 Conference: The Chinese Art Market 18 Jun 2019 Christie’s Education is delighted to announce our first international academic conference in Asia which will take place in Hong Kong from 26-27 November 2020 at the Hong Kong Convention and Exhibition Centre and will run in parallel with Christie’s Hong Kong Autumn Auctions.
The summer Chinese Art sale in Hong Kong will feature works of art from several private collections, including Qing porcelains and textile from the collection of the legendary Chinese art dealer A. W. Bahr (1877–1959), fine gilt bronze Buddhist sculptures from an old Hong Kong collection, an East Asian collection of Qing dynasty wine cups and jades, and a Japanese collection of Song ceramics ...
Sotheby's Chinese Works of Art Department holds two auctions each year in London, New York, Hong Kong and Paris.
Chinese Art - View Auction details, bid, buy and collect the various artworks at Sothebys Art Auction House.
With more than 340 Chinese works of art dating from the Neolithic to the Republic periods, highlights of this sale include a selection of Qing Imperial monochromes from the collection of Arnold and Blema Steinberg, early ceramics from the Art Institute of Chicago and Chinese porcelain and works of art from the collection of Henry Arnhold.
Results: Sotheby's Asia Week achieved $52.4 million in six strong auctions, exceeding pre-sale estimates. With 76.5% of lots sold and 60.3% of lots surpassing high estimates, the Asian art sales at Sotheby's indicate continued collector interest in the finest works of art from China, India and and the Himalayas.
Today's sale of Important Chinese Art will proceed as planned with sessions at 10 AM and 2 PM EDT. Sotheby's will be monitoring the weather conditions throughout the day and will be available to coordinate alternative bidding options should conditions make it difficult for clients to attend the auction in person.
Bonhams Chinese Art department is renowned for offering the finest works of art representing the richness and breadth of China's artistic heritage, particularly Imperial porcelain, white and spinach green jades, cloisonné and Buddhist art. Specialised international auctions are held globally, including London, Hong Kong and San Francisco.
Bonhams : Chinese Works of Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Chinese Art (US) General enquiries
Bonhams : Fine Chinese Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. Please refer to our privacy and cookie policies for more information.
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars Bonhams : Asian Art We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site.
Bonhams are international auctioneers of fine Chinese and Japanese art. We specialise in rare Imperial and Export Chinese ceramics and works of art, as well as Japanese ceramics, fine and decorative works of art from the Neolithic Period to the 20th century. View on map
Bonhams Fine Art Auctioneers & Valuers: auctioneers of art, pictures, collectables and motor cars. We use cookies to remember choices you make on functionality and personal features to enhance your experience to our site. By continuing to use our site you consent to the use of cookies. ... Asian Art Bonhams. Work. 22 Queen St.