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Dear all - I mentioned the Xuande fish pond bowl sold at Sotheby’s HK 5 April 2017 for a then world record price during discussions on the ‘Ming blue and white’ blog. I was in HK at the time of this sale, and was incredible fortunate to be able to see and handle this piece! ‘Breathing and exquisite’ are words that do not even come close ...
Attached images for all to enjoy ...
Stuart
Dear Stuart,
Thank you for showing those reference pictures.
I have a question and would appreciate very much to hear your opinion, having you been so lucky to have had the possibility to handle real Xuande porcelains. I never handled one in real.
Look at the picture below, it is a detail from a supposed Xuande dish. Look at how the glaze is wavy. Also, there are no real heap and pile at all. Instead, in the points where the cobalt is abundant, those that usually should show the heap and pile effect, there are big bubbles, which in some case, when they are real big, are open, the so called burst bubbles.
Do you think that all this is possible on a Xuande dish or not?
Thank you so much in advance.
Best regards
Giovanni
Dear Giovanni,
Well, this is intriguing! Incredible difficult to assess on a single image, so please bare in mind that the following is highly subjective ...
It is well know that Yongle and Xuande under glaze blue wares used Persian cobalt, a colouring agent with high concentrations of iron and low concentrations of manganese. After firing the cobalt usual appears very bright but, when not ground finely enough or when not dissolving completely during firing, small blue spots appear on the glaze surface, the so called 'heap and piled' effect. This is caused under firing when iron elements within the cobalt release brown iron spots, greenish-brown spots or yellowish-brown crystalline spots, and varieties in these shades produced a natural sense of layering.
Xuande wares covered in an even glaze layer fired at a correct temperature produces a surface with sparkling, thinly scattered air bubbles of various sizes that make the decoration clear and bright. However, some wares are covered with a thicker glaze layer and this produces a surface of small, dense bubbles that cloaks the decoration making the colour less distinctive.
Could the above dish be one such piece, it's a possibility?
However, when looking at the image closely there seems to be areas within the designs that appear to have been applied with two distinct cobalt layers, one on top of another? This is most obvious to part of the motif edge on the bottom left, and also the ell grass motif on the bottom right. If this is present throughout the designs might this imply an attempt to imitate/copy the 'heap and piled effect? Also, as you have mentioned, the glaze surface appears wavy and some of the larger bubbles have burst? The last two are features I have not seen when handling such pieces, which leaves me in some doubts as to the weather this dish is a guanine Xuande object ...
Having said all the above, one most remember there are always exceptions, and some allowances must be made ...
I hope this is of some help to you, Giovanni ...
Stuart
Dear Stuart,
thank you VERY much.
Sorry for not showing the whole piece, I was just interested to the answer about the glaze surface and the big dark burst bubbles, which are the two points that I too found dubious, although not sure.
Thank you again.
Best regards
Giovanni
Very interesting to have a Ming specialist on the forum , we are lucky.
for the amateurs here on the forum , i would like to show this copy of a Xuande piece , I understand it is modern but how modern? It shows heaping and piling and a silvering which obviously all can be faked .
Dear Giovanni -
No need for apologies, my pleasure to be of some help.
I am attached images of a very rare Yongle ‘lotus’ basin, an exceptional rare Yongle/early Xuande ‘Winged dragon’ jarlet, a large Xuande ‘India lotus’ fruit bowl and a very large Qinglong ‘Bajixiang’ Hu vase.
I have included close ups to show the variations of penetrating blue spots, and layering runs of cobalt in the glaze - the ‘heap and piled’ effect - and surface glaze bubble distribution on the Yongle and Xuande wares. When compared with the Qinglong Hu vase the difference are very obvious, the Qing painters having applied several layers of cobalt, one of top of another, in an attempt to imitate the natural colbalt/glaze effects of the early wares.
I trust these images are rather better in explaining the differences then my earlier worded reply!!
Dear Carl-Young,
Thank you very much however believe me when I say I am no specialist, just someone who, like all on this Forum, have a deep love and appreciation of Chinese ceramics, especially the early blue and white wares.
I would concur, a modern piece. The overall shape is copying that seen in the Hongwu and Yongle periods, but the proportions change in Xuande. The drago and clouds is a fairly good attempt at copying the early 15th century style, but lacks the ‘movement/ freedom and power’, the peach's are disproportionately large, the heap and piled’ effect been achieved using different cobalt layers and glaze is very white/clean and its surface exhibits artificial ware, the shape and finish of the foot edge is incorrect and the drawing of the mark is wrong.
It is rather new, IMO, but would have to see/handle to confirm just when made.
Stuart.
Dear all - apologies once again! Images appeared to have loaded in reverse - the two Qinglong Hu vase first, the three Yongle basin last!! Still getting use to these computer/lap top thingies!!! ? ?
Stuart
Dear Stuart,
I too find with my surprise that, in uploading the pictures to be shown here, we can't do that in logical order, picture, 1, 2, 3 etc. We must start from the last one.
What I have not yet found is the way to delete the images from the uploading page after having posted them.
Best regards
Giovanni
I noticed recently that things were uploading in reverse, has it always been like that? It seems that uploaded photos get automatically deleted at some point; I tried to find one to use as an example, but it had gone.
Stuart, thank you for all this information, it is so interesting and very useful. I love that fish bowl, especially the way the shape and decoration compliment each other: there is a real sense of movement and of looking through water. Absolutely lovely!
Dear Giovanni -
Pleased to hear I'am not the only one having some issues uploading images, I'll work it out - one day!! ?
Dear Julia -
My pleasure, pleased you found all so interesting/helpful!
Yes, the fish pond bowl is an exceptional object, a true master piece!! Unfortunately I could't quite find the £23m to acquire ... ? ?
Stuart
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