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I am no good a Chinese furniture but I picked these up for a reasonable price. The owner said they were bought in China when she lived there for two years. I hear a lot about modern chairs looking old. Did I buy 2 modern chairs.
Hi Brian,
In my opinion they are elm wood and circa late 19th century to early 20th century. Perhaps of you could provide additional pictures of the the underside for further opinions.
Desirable because you have a pair.
Mark
@imperialfinegems Mark I agree with your assessment I lt seems to be elm from what I lm seeing. I also think your date for the pair are good. I’ll get better pics. Any ideal what they are worth?
Hi Brian,
No I am not up to date with pricing of these.
Perhaps @Greeno107 or @Brettm could be of assistance.
Mark
Very nice pair of chairs, Brian. I would tend to agree with Mark on the wood, but we need some good photographs. These have properly soft-caned seats, which I doubt anyone would bother with on a modern copy (in fact the caning on the seat that you show appears to have been mended, and I'm curious to see what it looks like on top). You will see a lot of originally soft-caned chairs where the webbing underneath has been replaced by a board (I'm sitting on one now, haha), so it's nice to see a chair where the original caning is intact. The carving on the backsplat looks nice, too. Please definitely provide us more pictures, including of the top panel on the backsplat, the apron, the flanges that are attached to the stiles. etc. Also, if you take a picture of one chair not too close up, we'll get a better sense of the shape of the toprail. Also, don't forget measurements, including seat height.
Regards,
John
@jjytlee thank you for the information here are more pictures according to the dataing Chinese furniture database it looks like these chairs could be a little earlier first half of 19th century.
Nice! Why don’t you clean them up and enjoy them go awhile? Go easy on them , though - I have two chairs and three stools where the soft cane seat collapsed over the years, and I’m going to have to find someone to restore them.
@lotusblack Brian, on the top panel of the back splat, shown in the second-to-last picture, there's a little square in the top left corner. Have you figured out what it is, is it a patch of some kind?
John
@jjytlee it looks like a jointed piece of wood I don’t know if it’s a repair or was part of the original construction. I have found several areas of restoration from wood shrinkage.
Side and rear shots of the entire chair would be nice, too, when you get chance.
Hello Brian,
Very nice pair of chairs made from Northern Elm as apposed to a recent post we had that was Southern Elm. The timber is known as Manchurian Elm or Siberian Elm. It is very similar to Japanese Elm. You will find it in the data base you have mentioned which notes there are over 20 variety's of Elm distributed around China all with very similar characteristics. Good to see the woven matting still intact your chairs still have the under webbing made from thicker strands of plant material. If you search the data base you have referred to under materials you will find a section on woven cane, which will tell you the how and when.
Cheers
Michael
@brettm thank you for this information. The database indicates that my caning is typical of Ming to late Qing period. Am I reading that correctly or is it later in construction in your opinion. If these are that early maybe I should seek a preservationists is it common to see these chairs with the netting intact?
Hello Brian,
Don't take this the wrong way but Ming to late Qing is a very long time. The Qing lasted about 270 years, so if you say Ming to late Qing we are talking a period of over 300 hundred years. The shallow relief carving has been done with some care it is slightly undercut so gives a sense of depth and shadow. Although it is not as crisp as you might expect on Ming furniture but as the timber is elm and not a hardwood leads me to think that your chairs are what might be called provincial or county furniture in the west so you might not expect the carving to be really sharp. I notice that the timbers on the underside look weathered whilst the show side looks almost new in its finish. Also there are signs of paint or laqure on the show side it is very difficult to guess at a date on refinished items. Can you tell if the cane matting is actually woven and pegged into the side and back supports or cut from a mat sheet and fixed in groove with bamboo strips. In either case I think to find a pair of chairs with the soft can seats with the under webbing intact is much rarer that the solid wood varieties it would certainly be worth having them looked at by an expert before taking any action. My guess and i stress it is just a guess based on the shape of the horse shoe back stretcher and the way it shapes into the arms, plus the carving and timber is that the chairs date from the mid to late 19thc. I think earlier chairs would be a little taller at the back giving them a more elegant look. I think that the lower more squat look is more typical of the 19thc. This is based on the photo's showing the chairs side by side it may well be that the angle of the photo has distorted the actual proportions .
Why not ask Peter as first the stop with the current interest in Chinese furniture you don't want to take any chances.
Michael
@brettm thanks again I did look for pegs and see them in the holes where the webbing loops threw. I believe your correct about them being refinished. I see signs of lacquer. I probably will seen off some photos and get them checked out my feelings is that the cane would be goner by now if earlier than 19th century I don’t see how the material used would survive that long etc matting natural fibers. I do not like to buy furniture because of the lack of knowledge and was nervous to pay the $200 price tag but was a buy it now or some else would moment. These were bought in China buy past owner when she work there so where not export furniture is all I was told. I think a clue for proper dating will be the wings on the chair supports I have seen these online dating 19th century. Also the webbing something was done to make them very hard I believe to strengthen the tension looks like maybe a substance was than heated as I see burning.
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