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Hey Folks,
I just received this censer in the mail today, and I bought it on a whim thinking it maybe was okay, but the pictures weren't all that great, so I kinda took a shot. It definitely was polished a while ago, which I know hurts it, and its rather beat up, but the inside looks like it was left alone for the most part, I had to scrub some paint out of it, so in the pics its slightly wet, also there is crud in the mark but its just soil or something. I am just wondering if anyone thinks it is possibly late 19th century or republic even. I get the impression from it in person that it has some age.
Anyhow I figured maybe someone on here might know about it.
Its just under 10" handle to handle.
Cheers,
Jeremy
The white background creates too much contrast for my eyes to see if this is/was a gilt gold piece or simply a brass piece.
The mark is very well cast.
The handles are difficult to tell if they are attached with solder, or cast along with the body.
Could you try posting a close up of where the handle meets the body in good light?
Also, could you photograph the whole thing against a black background?
Hey Tim,
I will switch out the back drop on the light box, was too lazy last night. I'm about 99% sure it is bronze, as the patination forms mottled unlike brass ( I have about two dozen 17th through early 20th century brass, bronze, and bell metal candlesticks to compare it to... all polished and then patinated over time). the color reminds me of an unfortunately polished bronze vase that was brought into the shop, unfortunately polished the about twenty years prior by their housekeeper, that one was terrible considering it was a Qianlong example originally purchased at Christie, oof.
Also the handles are cast with it, there is corrosion is the crevasses where it meets the body and dirt, I was wondering that too... but I can shoot a closeup.
One thing to note is I think the legs are hollow, there seems to be something in there that is rattling very softly, this thing is quite heavy so hard to shake.
Give me a few minutes.
Cheers,
Jeremy
Hey Tim,
A few shots, seems my front lights are not working so I rigged the light box, so I hope this helps.
Looks like gold gilt. Looks like one piece with the handles cast together with the body of the vessel.
I think it’s a very nice & old piece (18th c or older) - perhaps worth reaching out to one of the bigger auction houses if you are looking to sell it.
Good buy!
Jeremy do you think this was polished or is the gilding just wearing off.
Tim,
Holy cow!
I honestly thought you were going to say "nice late Qing copy.."
That is reassuring to hear and I will definitely reach out to them, I only bought it to sell, also to handle what looked like a decent bronze to me, something I know little about. But I thought the mark looked so crisp and overall it looked really well cast, plus was very affordable, so I had to take a shot.
I think it is a Qianlong mark, so I am still kinda hesitant to say 18th century since wouldn't that be M and P?
I will update once I hear back.
Thank you, seriously.
Jeremy
Brian,
I have realized I may be wrong about it being polished... Some of these seem to have crazy patinas, and are not always that brown I assumed the bronzes should be. It definitely has a few dings to the top rim, and has lived a semi rough life, I think the seller thought it was a planter...
Here is one from Rm-auctions that has a not so uniform patina, but to be honest I still don't have a clue what leads to it, polishing or not. It is not a perfect example but it is at least not all one color.
I would think that some of the gilding has come off, I dunno.
Jeremy
@jbeer2121 Bad habit of me not taking closer looks at marks....I just drove back from Atlanta (6 hours) after a show, and I only looked at the shape and casting on my phone.... didn't look closely at the mark.
Nevertheless, the casting shows good knife marks... generally a very good sign.
No worries Tim, It took me a bit to realize, seal script isn't really my area. I was wondering about the knife marks, I have only noticed that on earlier ones, not late Qing so much or 20th century.
Jeremy
Tim,
I reached out to my contact at Sotheby's, heard back immediately. She said it definitely is attributed to late 18th to early 19th century, very good quality casting, but that the damage and the over-cleaning/ polishing ( I guess I was right about that) hurts its bottom line, makes it likely unsalable for them she thought right off the bat, but will get back to me, so fingers crossed. But definitely worth a few thousand so I am thrilled with that.
Jeremy
Also I think I got the mark wrong, is it Xuande?
@jbeer2121 the censer I sold had the same crisp mark most in the forum thought modern but the buyers thought much older. I’ve only seen this crisp mark on older objects.
Hey Brian,
I dont remember it, do you still have photos?
I agree on that theory, I don't know if downright fakes have nailed that, Im sure some do, but I feel like I noticed on ming into qing it seems the marks are near perfectly cut in. I don't know this auction house, but they seem to have a following, this catalogue is interesting.
Jeremy
http://polyculture.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/20170501.pdf
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