From 'a collection of Jades' Hong Kong 29th November 2017.

Mark.

I sent pictures to Robert Bradlow (forner head of Sothebys). He thought based on the images probably Jin-Yuan but noted the unusual design and size.

I also reached out to Peter via the app. He was of the opinion that it was MAYBE later Ming or 18th Century attribite based on the maiden image, polish and V cut lines.

He noted the unusual size and the depictions as he had never seen one like this from the Jin-Yuan period.

However, he did not rule it out that it could be earlier as there is little information available. So he concluded more research is required.

Xin from Wyssemaria-art who has a remarkable eye thought it was Jin-Yuan period.

I read online that there was a rare child and scholar one from the said period but no pictures. Also that they were made in the larger size but mostly no more than 5cm.

Its a real pity that Sam Bernstein is no longer with us as he would have definetly known.

So the research continues......🙏

Mark

Hi Alan,

Thank you for your reply and thoughts therein. Very much appreciated.

At first I too thought it was a peacock and a egret in flight. However as pointed out by @julia it was missing its iconic head plum. The feathers too on the lower section are also wrong for a peacock.

So I have after much reasearch I have come to the conclusion that both are phoenix. This correlates with the imperial celestial maiden. Apparantly you could not have a egret paired with a phoenix during the Jin- Yuan period.

Due to the larger size than most (7.5cm versus under 5cm) and the weight (168 grams versus under 80 grams) this would have been worn as a special head dress by either a member of the royal family or a high ranking consort and or very high court official.

Unlike later in the Qing period (rank badges) the use/depiction of phoenix was heaviky regulated and was mostly exclusively used by the imperial family.

Mark

It seems to me that two different birds are being carved, whether the difference is that of gender (as per Stuart's suggestion), or species, I'm not sure, though on balance, I'd opt for species. If that's the case, could one bird be an egret (associated with the lotus foliage) and the other a peacock (associated with the other foliage on the finial, which may perhaps not be that of the lotus but of some other plant)? You might check out what plant the 'peacock' foliage affiliates with, if it's not in fact that of the lotus. It also occurs to me that associating peacocks with lotus ponds would be a bit odd, given that they're not wading birds, as egrets are. But perhaps we're not allowing enough room for artistic licence in all this, and expecting an artistic depiction to bear the weight of too much reality.

Incidentally, I'm going to have a look at the Adam's Asian Art sale viewing today. Peter commented on it in his weekly video last Friday. I may report back on it here depending on my impressions.

Best wishes,

Alan

Hi Stuart,

Not sure.

From my research all have this plum with the exception of the African ones.

Mark

Hi Mark, 

Perhaps the one with the long tail represent the male peacock, the other being a female peahen? …

But just my ‘wild guess’ …

Regards my friend, 

Stuart 

Good point. It does not.

So a phoenix perhaps?