Batty red and white saucer - Help Identify This

RE: Batty red and white saucer

Julia — Mon, 14 Dec 2020 17:52:34 +0000

Thanks Steve, I thought there was but wasn't sure. Don't try to remove the grit: it is a good thing on a genuine item as it helps with dating.

I see what Greeno means with the inner part possibly being stamped, but the pressure to one side isn't consistent. I agree, parts of it are as he describes but other bits aren't - even within the same character. In fact some areas look more like someone has gone over them twice. I suppose it might have been stamped once then gone over by hand and the outside lines added?

RE: Batty red and white saucer

Steve — Mon, 14 Dec 2020 17:04:01 +0000

@greeno107

Yes, I agree.

I'm guessing it was made for domestic use.

RE: Batty red and white saucer

Greeno107 — Mon, 14 Dec 2020 16:52:02 +0000

@steve Glad to be of some service. The nature of collecting Chinese porcelains is inherently filled with more negative than positive outcomes because of the demand far exceeding the supply, and the bounty of those who are looking to exploit the demands by creating convincing copies.

I don't think your plate is new or a fake, but rather a late 19th to early 20th c piece madera a gift, five bats conveying the blessing for eternal wealth (wu fu), and the 'shou' symbol a blessing for long life.

At the time of creation, not everyone could afford a higher quality piece, so variations in quality existed to provide gifts for people of all economic levels, not to mention pieces made explicitly for export.

RE: Batty red and white saucer

Steve — Mon, 14 Dec 2020 16:22:31 +0000

@greeno107

You are no fly! I agree that the mark looks stamped.

RE: Batty red and white saucer

Steve — Mon, 14 Dec 2020 16:21:13 +0000

@sharonp

Hi Sharon,

It looks stamped to me, too. Hand-painted marks usually have a little pool of glaze at the end of each brush stroke.

Sadly, it wasn't a bargain but a splurge. I paid $195 for it, which I'm sure Peter would say is too much. I am older and (at least a little) wiser now. I'm guessing it's worth around $100, although if it's rare...

RE: Batty red and white saucer

Steve — Mon, 14 Dec 2020 16:18:27 +0000

@julia

Hi Julia,

I've seen other items with bats on them of course but never trimmed with hanging bats like that. They went all in on the bats, didn't they?

There is a little grit on the foot rim, dirty looking grit. I haven't tried to scrub it off.

RE: Batty red and white saucer

Sharon P — Mon, 14 Dec 2020 14:32:59 +0000

@johnshoe I can't see it as a stamp but from what I understand some pieces from nineteenth-republic were stamped and it would not matter to the legitimacy of the piece, i.e. not an indication of age or lack thereof. I certainly would have purchased as an example of orange peel, especially if it was a bargain price, plus the handpainted border and design.

RE: Batty red and white saucer

johnshoe — Mon, 14 Dec 2020 13:38:02 +0000

@greeno107 Thanks for pointing out that nuance. I can totally see what you mean and how this would be a stamp. I will be looking out for that in the future. Cheers! John

RE: Batty red and white saucer

Greeno107 — Mon, 14 Dec 2020 13:34:13 +0000

The box around the seal does look hand rendered.

RE: Batty red and white saucer

Greeno107 — Mon, 14 Dec 2020 13:31:32 +0000

I hate to be the fly that landed in the soup, but that looks like a stamped mark to me. Look at how the strokes have a dark edge on the left side and a spongy lighter right side. That's from the angle the stamp is lifted after being pressed down.

The looseness of the mark that kind of makes it look hand written is perhaps due to the seal beng hand carved.